The Hidden Threats to Church Security

In this episode, Ruth Hovsepian and Lori Morrison discuss the critical topic of church security. They explore the importance of creating safe environments for congregants, the threats posed by leadership complacency, and the need for a holistic approach to safety that includes emotional and spiritual well-being. Lori emphasizes the role of women in church safety, the necessity of training and awareness, and the importance of being proactive rather than reactive in safety measures. The conversation concludes with practical steps churches can take to enhance their safety protocols.

Takeaways:

• Church safety is not just physical; it's emotional and spiritual.
• Leadership must recognize that threats can happen anywhere.
• A holistic approach to safety includes all aspects of church life.
• Women bring unique strengths to church safety roles.
• Training is essential for all church leaders and volunteers.
• Communication and awareness are key to preventing issues.
• Proactive measures are more effective than reactive responses.
• Resource lists can help churches provide the necessary support.
• Churches should not try to be everything for everyone.
• Collaboration among all church teams enhances safety.

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Transcript

Ruth Hovsepian (00:01.199)
Welcome to Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hufsepian. In today's episode, we're diving into the critical topic of church security and what it truly looks like in today's world. My guest, Lori Morrison, is here to share her expertise. Lori has an extensive, has an extensive, let me try this again, sorry. I'm tripping over my own words. I wrote it, I'm tripping, sorry.

I'll start from the top. Welcome to Out of the Darkness with Ruth Huff-Suppian. In today's episode, we're diving into the critical topic of church security and what it truly looks like in today's world. My guest, Lori Morrison, is here to share her experience and has extensive...

Lori Morrison (00:57.023)
Thank you.

Ruth Hovsepian (00:58.94)
I have to say this in the most appreciative of ways. I'm glad it's you and no one else. I never do this. Why am I tripping over this?

Lori Morrison (01:10.06)
I don't know, I hear you though.

Ruth Hovsepian (01:11.955)
I'm sorry. I never, anyway, doesn't matter. Never is. All right, one more time. Focus, Ruth.

Welcome to Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hovsepian In today's episode, we're diving into the critical topic of church security and what it truly looks like in today's world. My guest, Lori Morrison, is here to share her expertise. Lori has extensive experience helping ministry leaders address the 12 essential safety issues present in every church.

With a background as a church staffer, a retired private investigator, and a dedicated church safety consultant, she brings valuable insight into creating physically, emotionally, and spiritually safe environments for our faith communities. Welcome, Lori.

Lori Morrison (02:12.076)
So thank you, it's so good to be here with you, Ruth.

Ruth Hovsepian (02:15.119)
Well, Lori, I'm glad you're here to talk about this. And I realized that as I was doing the opening, why I stumbled the first few times, it was all the expertise, extensive and experience. So I'm telling you, your experience is what stumbled. Well, listen, I know you've spent, you know, years helping churches improve their security. Can you give us a glimpse into

Lori Morrison (02:30.187)
you

Ruth Hovsepian (02:44.977)
why you feel church safety is such an important topic and why did you feel that you needed to work in this area?

Lori Morrison (02:55.512)
Well, I think at the heart of it, there's really so many ways you could answer that question. But for me at the heart of it, it's a gospel issue because if people don't feel safe with us, not just physically, but also emotionally and spiritually, that's really going to hamper our ability to effectively share the good news with them.

They have to be able to trust us. They have to be able to let their guard down. They have to feel comfortable being around us in our buildings, out in small groups. And if we don't accomplish those things, then how are we going to get to the point where they listen to what we have to say about the Bible, about Christ, and say, yes, that's something I want to know more of.

Ruth Hovsepian (03:36.861)
Mm.

Ruth Hovsepian (03:45.113)
It's interesting because, you know, we, we look at what has been happening in the churches in the last decade or so that, well, we are hearing about it. It's not to say that it wasn't happening prior to our hearing about it. It just wasn't spoken about. It was a taboo thing. And we are seeing so many different areas that.

have come out, whether it's, you you hear about in the U S church shootings, you hear about, you know, pastors and leaders, you know, abusing whatever it is. We also, here in Canada in the last year, yeah, a little over a year, maybe have had a lot of burnings of churches, whether it's in the Protestant church or the Catholic.

church. So I can understand, you know, the fear of those that attend church or, you know, those that have had a trauma in the past that, you know, don't feel comfortable. But in your opinion, what is the single greatest threat to churches today?

Lori Morrison (05:06.67)
This is probably not going to be a real popular opinion, but let me unpack it if you're watching. The single biggest threat to safety and security in our churches today is leadership that's wearing blinders.

not all leadership. not just having this broad swath of people that I'm condemning. But when anybody in a leadership position, not just pastors, but people that are leading ministries within the church, when they put on blinders, then they say things like, well, that won't happen here. That can't happen here. That's never happened here. Which by the way, if you've said any of those things, you're probably wrong.

It can, it will, and it has. So being able to have our leaders open their eyes, look at what is going on out there, and recognize that it can happen anywhere, and taking a prideful approach that we don't need to discuss that, we don't need to worry about that, you're setting yourself up.

for a predator to say this is the perfect place for me to strike.

Ruth Hovsepian (06:22.119)
Yeah, I understand that, you know, I'm seeing more and more and our church as the church I attend to actually right now is implementing a sign in and a different type of sign in and sign out for children. And we're not one of these mega churches by any means, right? But it's there, it's in the forefront of the leadership's

thoughts about the safety of the children. And you know, I need to take it from another angle as well. I would say it's not just for the safety of the children, it's the safety of the leadership. Yeah, you know, because listen, know, yes, there are threats from leadership to members in a church.

But I have seen it go the other way around as well, where, you know, people have accused pastors and leaders of inappropriate conduct when there wasn't any, for whatever reason. And again, you know, I want everyone who, who, who's listening and watching that we're not talking, we're talking in broad terms. We're not, we're not saying that

Lori Morrison (07:26.305)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Morrison (07:34.38)
Right.

Lori Morrison (07:44.494)
you

Ruth Hovsepian (07:46.009)
Everyone, not every leader and not every church has it. And if your church is safe and a secure place, well, bless you. You know, I'd like, I'd like to come and see it, but there's always something there. You know, it may not be something that you, you're aware of. It could be as, listen, it could be as subliminal as.

you know, putting thoughts into people's minds or, you know, or threatening them. If you don't do this, this is the consequence. I think that is also part of the training that we need within the church.

Lori Morrison (08:19.82)
record.

Lori Morrison (08:34.062)
I agree 100 % I always talk about holistic church safety and it's it's not my favorite word because it sounds a little new-agey. Put the W on the front of that whole we're looking at every aspect

Ruth Hovsepian (08:43.507)
I hear you, yeah.

Yep.

Lori Morrison (08:51.296)
of safety. think most of the time when people hear that they think, we've got to protect against, you know, somebody coming in with a weapon. And yes, we do. But the odds of that happening are much less than somebody coming forward to report that they're being abused at home. You know, just because it's not happening in the church building doesn't mean we have no responsibility.

It could be something like you're talking about. Do you have a small group leader who is teaching things that are maybe contrary to your beliefs or to scripture? So how do you make sure that you're staying on top of those things? Are you being welcoming to people who have been hurt in other places? Our word choices are so important. And so are we training people about those kind of things?

Ruth Hovsepian (09:31.069)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (09:39.677)
Huge.

Lori Morrison (09:45.908)
It's those kind of fly under the radar types of safety issues that I think we don't spend enough time addressing because again, if we keep your physical body safe, but we've done something that's led your soul astray, or we've hurt you to the point where you leave and you never engage with the gospel again.

that's every bit as dangerous and as serious. I really, and that's why I love being a woman in the church safety area because we've got lots and lots and lots. The vast majority are men and typically they have a military or a law enforcement background and those are great things. They give them really good practical training.

Ruth Hovsepian (10:16.723)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (10:32.775)
Right.

Lori Morrison (10:40.482)
But the things that they're not trained on necessarily, I think are a little bit more that a woman has some strengths in. If someone comes in and a woman really needs to talk to somebody, especially if she needs to disclose something, she's often more comfortable with a female there. Same with children.

So, you know, we have different strengths, we have different approaches, and so I think we need to make sure we're embracing all of them, not just being bodyguards.

Ruth Hovsepian (11:13.895)
Yeah.

No, I agree with you. think there are different aspects of security. I think, you know, traditionally when you think about church security, you're, you're thinking about, you know, the physical, as you said, right. And, and that's where the male, you know, consultant who's working with a church comes in, but we, you know, and I know we're in 2020 foreign people don't like to admit it, but men and women are.

built differently and we were created differently. And women are more emotional and it's not a bad thing. It's just the way it is. We are more emotional. Therefore we will sense the needs of, you know, the emotional side of it. And I know this isn't what we're talking about, but this is where a pastor and his wife really work together, right? You know,

When you bring it on a pastor, you need to also have a feel of what the pastor's wife is about. Because if you're in a small church setting, right, where you don't have all the staff and all the different leaderships, you need someone that is alongside the pastor that can take on that role of someone.

Lori Morrison (12:14.222)
you

Lori Morrison (12:41.11)
And I will say a little caveat to that. If the pastor's wife wants to function in that capacity, she needs to get some training because just by virtue of being married to a pastor doesn't mean you're necessarily qualified for something. We had a situation in my own church not too long ago and I'm the only female on the security team. We've got another one who functions on the medical side of that. But

Ruth Hovsepian (12:49.059)
Right. Yes, 100%.

Lori Morrison (13:10.75)
that something came up and somebody said we need to get Lori because they recognized they needed a funeral in that room. So, and I had the training.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:17.009)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:22.385)
Yeah. And I agree with you. There's nothing wrong. think, you know, what we've done in the past traditionally, and I grew up in the church, so I, I've seen it from the ground up is we try and fit people into roles. Or, you know, we have an opening, would you take it without taking into consideration if the person is a good fit? Yes.

Lori Morrison (13:38.872)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:48.411)
I know people are going to be saying out there, but my church is too small. We don't have enough people we need. Okay, great. But give people, first of all, discipleship, give them training because I think you need both, not just the training to do something, but discipleship needs to go with it and give them the time to fit into that role and not just take it out of the pressure of

Well, we need someone in there. Better not to have that area of service in the church than to have it and not have qualified people to deal with it.

Lori Morrison (14:27.81)
Because people, well-meaning people can do damage.

Ruth Hovsepian (14:32.243)
100%, 100%, the wording is, and you said something before that spoke volumes to me. And that is the way we speak and the words that we use, even, even our body language. and I know, listen, I'm, talking to you and saying this, and I can hear people over the years who have told me things about this. And it's sort of like, but this is a church, it's not a business.

But, but unfortunately it has become a business. So therefore we need to put these things into place, right? Because traditionally the church was really something different.

Lori Morrison (15:17.494)
And just having an awareness that your church may do things a certain way. And that may only work for people who are in a certain frame of mind. And let me kind of give you an example of what I mean by that. Let's say your church has a very strong tradition of laying on hands, especially when you're praying for someone. If you get someone that comes forward to disclose something traumatic,

Ruth Hovsepian (15:37.715)
Mmm.

Lori Morrison (15:47.554)
they you don't necessarily know what that person's background is going to be. It's a woman and you got a man that wants to pray and put his hand on her. That can be so misinterpreted and can be further traumatized. So I know when I'm speaking with someone, let's say I feel like they need a human connection, you know, maybe a hug would be good. I ask is it okay if I come and give you a hug?

Ruth Hovsepian (16:16.765)
Yeah, that's interesting. I do that too now. Yeah.

Lori Morrison (16:17.612)
Don't just assume that this person knows, when I put my hand on your shoulder, it's because that's our prayer tradition. To them, that may trigger a very difficult memory.

Ruth Hovsepian (16:33.565)
Yeah, I do that too. Now, whenever, you know, I'm somewhere speaking and I'm praying at the end, know, those who are attending will come and ask for prayer or prayer request. And first of all, when you work with people, I think you start to be aware of body language. And if somebody comes and draws close to me, I know that they're more of someone who needs it. So I'll say, can I?

Can you? Can I pray for you? And I'm very aware of it. But if somebody comes to me and is talking to me and they're standing further away, that's a sign to me that that person has some kind of an issue. So again, I will ask, may I give you a hug? May I hold your hand? Or I find that they reach out if they want it. They'll reach out their hand and want to hold hands.

Lori Morrison (17:19.117)
Mm-hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (17:31.079)
But yes, you're right. You know, these are things that we need to talk about. And do we, do we really need to have, you know, like a large official training session in a small church? Maybe we need to have all the leadership in a room and have a conversation, you know, from someone like you or, or whatever it is and, talk about this, right? Because we're so small, maybe five or six people.

Lori Morrison (17:48.823)
Mm.

Ruth Hovsepian (18:01.179)
And, and make, put things into place. And you taught me something. And that is when we first started talking, you know, like when we, when we met, you said something about not being reactive, but being proactive to things and having things in place and not having to try and figure out when something happens, what our next step is. And I'll never forget that. And I, I carry that with me when we're, when I'm in,

in different churches and a subject comes up and I'll always say, you guys need to be proactive, not reactive to other areas as well. In my case, it's when we're dealing, know, like I'm there for different reasons, but I'll say, is the women's group or the men's group ready to react when somebody comes in with ABCD, right? So it's the same thing with.

what you're talking about.

Lori Morrison (19:00.101)
Yeah.

Right, a crisis is not the time to put together a plan. You need to have it in place ahead of time. And that's why I try to give people templates and ideas and processes, because why reinvent the wheel? know, certainly customize things for the size and the culture of your church, but at its core,

most basic safety plans are pretty similar. So let's take what we've already learned and then let's make it work for each church. And I'm a huge proponent of let's find as many free and nearly free things that we can do first. You know, let's make those small steps. It's not about, well, your church isn't safe unless you suddenly drop a half a million dollars on, you know, cameras or this or that.

Ruth Hovsepian (19:57.212)
right.

Lori Morrison (19:58.518)
And honestly, and I've heard other security people say the same thing. Cameras are great. They're usually better after the fact. When you go back and look to see what happened, they're not preventative, except to the extent if somebody that has ill intention sees that you have a lot of cameras, they're gonna say, maybe I should go somewhere that doesn't have cameras and won't catch me. So they're good for that. But.

Ruth Hovsepian (20:10.31)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (20:21.639)
Right.

Lori Morrison (20:25.998)
Having a group of people who are kind of trained issue spotters. Do you see something that maybe is a little little off you feel like? Tell your security people so they can keep an eye on that. See that kind of stuff is free unless you count the cost of maybe training some of your people on what they should be looking for. I know at my church

Ruth Hovsepian (20:37.362)
Yeah.

Lori Morrison (20:53.75)
I saw someone who I thought was kind of dressed inappropriately for the season. Little too warm to be wearing a trench coat in my mind. And trench coats are easy to conceal a lot of things in. And you know, I didn't run down the aisle and tackle him, but I just found another security person. said, you know, hey, just something I'm a little curious about over here. And he said, I know that person. This is why everything, you know, it's okay.

Ruth Hovsepian (21:00.531)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (21:12.595)
Right.

Lori Morrison (21:23.316)
Okay, good. But I didn't know that. And so I just I found somebody who could confirm to me that it wasn't a problem. And until you can show me it's not a problem. In my mind, it's a potential problem. And I'm going to keep an eye on it. So just having people be aware of doing that. You even your creators, you know, they have really close contact with people when they're coming in talking to them looking in their eyes, they might be able to spot

Ruth Hovsepian (21:35.963)
Mmm.

Lori Morrison (21:52.706)
Say a health crisis that's coming. That person looks like they're sweating, they seem a little clammy, they don't seem really with it. Get your medical people and have them, know, hey, are you feeling okay? We're a little concerned about you.

Ruth Hovsepian (21:55.784)
Yep.

Lori Morrison (22:09.73)
things like that, people that are keeping an eye on the weather. If you think that there's a possibility for bad weather, do you have someone paying attention to weather reports so you know if you need to get everybody to a safe spot or something? So it really is about having your security team interacting with every single team you have.

Ruth Hovsepian (22:18.311)
Mm-hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (22:32.627)
Yeah. Yeah. I think this is where that preparedness comes in and these discussions and, know, sometimes we don't even think about it. You know, why, if you've never experienced something or, you know, haven't had a conversation with someone, you would never think of what to look for. What are some of the flags out there that you need to be aware of? And ultimately you don't want to find out.

You know, in, in the, you know, in a hard way, when something does happen, you'd rather be prepared and never see it come to fruition and happen. I think that's, that's where, you know, as I said, you really made that point so clear to me that you need to be proactive about it, not reactive to it. And I think about it in other areas as well, you know, yes, the physical security, but

Also, you know, when somebody has a situation in their home and they come to talk about it and how does the church react to it? I think that's part of the training of the church. You know, what do we do? You know, if we find out that there is some sort of familial abuse happening,

What can the church do? Where do we stand, whether it's from a legal standpoint or from a brother and sister in Christ? How do we deal with these things? What do we do? And I think

Lori Morrison (24:09.1)
Yes, you need to have a plan and you need to have a resource list. I think one big mistake that a lot of churches make and it's out of caring. We want everything to everybody. And we just don't have the resources, most churches, to do that. And so figure out if someone comes to me with this issue, who is trained to deal with that? Do they need a trauma counselor?

Ruth Hovsepian (24:13.746)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (24:27.794)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (24:38.493)
Yeah.

Lori Morrison (24:39.406)
Do they need biblical counseling? Those are two different things and pastors forget that. So have a list of people that you can refer them to. Are they suddenly homeless? Do you know your local shelters? Do you know job fairs? Do you know of places that help place people? Just have places that you can point people.

Because again, you cannot be everything for everybody as much as we want to be.

Ruth Hovsepian (25:10.205)
Yeah, everybody tends to go to the pastor or, you know, the, maybe the elders that are known and they're inundated. And sometimes you see it at the end of the church service, everybody flocking to them, asking them questions. And even during the week, you know, all the phone calls, but I think you're, know, you, you make a good point in that, that it's good to have all the church leadership should have access to.

Lori Morrison (25:17.826)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (25:39.805)
this directory or a directory where they have this information at their fingertips and it's instant kind of a reply. Can you give us, you you've talked about all the, you know, some of the things that we can have and should have within the church. It, know, for someone who's listening, can you give maybe, you know, two of your top, you know, practical steps that a church can take

just to start off other than contacting you because that goes without saying. So let me put the plug in there. If you're listening and you're concerned, have your church leadership contact Laurie. That's it. End of story. It'll be easy peasy. But what are couple of really practical steps that a church can take?

Lori Morrison (26:35.52)
that is a great question. I think the resource list is probably one of the top ones. Know who can do the things that you can't. Another one would just be don't put your security team in a little box. Have them interacting with all your other teams because there's stuff going on.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:39.195)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:54.099)
Mmm.

Lori Morrison (27:03.15)
that maybe even the security team doesn't know about because people in those other ministries don't feel like they can come forward with something. I don't want to get somebody in trouble. I don't want to do this or that. People need to feel very confident that they can bring an issue forward and it will be looked at and it will be dealt with. Be willing.

Ruth Hovsepian (27:13.747)
Hmm.

Lori Morrison (27:32.076)
to understand that sometimes that means outside intervention. Churches will handle that, will handle that. Most pastors simply are not trained. They're trained to preach the word. They're trained to shepherd. They're not necessarily trained in trauma. They're not necessarily trained in, preventional tactics.

Ruth Hovsepian (27:37.203)
Mm.

Lori Morrison (28:00.286)
So make sure you're letting outside people speak into what you need, especially if you have any kind of anything that might be a criminal act.

Ruth Hovsepian (28:15.219)
Yeah.

Well, you know, this is a topic again that can go into so many different, you know, like avenues and different ways, but, know, I do appreciate you being here and talking about it. And in all seriousness, you know, Lori's information is down below. So in the description and in the show notes and contact Lori, she's a great speaker.

She has her books out there and she's working on another one, I think, if I'm correct. But there's a lot of information out there that you can find and reach out to her. So I thank you, Lori, for being here. And I thank you all for joining us for this conversation on church security with Lori Morrison. If you enjoyed this episode,

Lori Morrison (29:03.34)
Thank you for having me.

Ruth Hovsepian (29:13.405)
Please subscribe to Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hovsepian on your favorite podcast platform and YouTube. For more information on Lori's work or to connect with her, be sure to check the show notes or episode description. Until next time, keep seeking truth in God's Word.