Walking Across America: A Journey of Faith and Mission with Rick & Jane McKinney

Rick and Jane McKinney share their extraordinary journey of walking across America to share their faith and pray for their nation. Their experiences, encounters, and unwavering faith in God led to divine appointments and opportunities to share the gospel. They also discuss the importance of being open to witnessing opportunities and the impact of their mission in various countries, including India, China, and Tibet. The conversation covers the themes of spiritual warfare, the impact of darkness on society, the role of the church, and the need for outreach and discipleship. It also emphasizes the importance of shining light in dark places and reaching out to those who are lost and searching for spiritual fulfillment.

Takeaways

• The power of faith and divine guidance in overcoming challenges
• The importance of being open to witnessing opportunities
• The impact of sharing the gospel and being Jesus to people
• The significance of spiritual warfare and the full armor of God
• The transformative journey of sobriety and encountering evil spirits The importance of being spiritually prepared to face dark and oppressive environments
• The need for Christians to shine their light in a dark world and not hide their faith
• The role of the church in reaching out to the lost and serving as a lighthouse in the community
• The significance of empathy and outreach in mirroring the love of Jesus to others

Website | https://andsowewalked.org
Instagram  | https://www.instagram.com/rickdavidmckinney/
Facebook  | https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100092330863354
LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/rick-and-jane-mckinney-39420b277/

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Chapters

• 6:11 Divine Appointments and Witnessing Opportunities
• 13:45 Spiritual Warfare and the Full Armor of God
• 23:12 Encountering Evil Spirits: A Journey of Sobriety
• 25:31 Spiritual Warfare and Preparedness
• 27:59 Shining Light in a Dark World
• 33:44 The Role of the Church in Outreach and Discipleship

Transcript

Ruth Hovsepian (00:00.974)
Welcome to another inspiring episode of Out of the Darkness. I'm your host Ruth Hovsepian And today we have an extraordinary story that will uplift your spirits and deepen your faith. Joining me are Rick and Jane McKinney. And this incredible couple walked across America to share their faith and pray for their nation. Overcoming numerous challenges along the way, their journey is a testament to the power of faith.

perseverance and divine guidance. Today we'll be talking about their experiences, the obstacles they faced and how their unwavering faith in God saw them through it. So sit back and get ready to be inspired. I'm thrilled to introduce our guests for today's episode, Rick and Jane McKinney. Rick and Jane are the founders of the Road Less Traveled Ministries, a mission dedicated to spreading faith.

and hope across the USA. They embarked on a remarkable journey, walking over 2 ,500 miles to share their faith and pray for their country. Known for their fearless approach and unwavering dedication, they have nurtured seeds of faith in various communities, from the Navajo Nation to remote villages in India, and even across China and Tibet.

Welcome Rick and Jane. It's an honor to have you on Out of the Darkness.

Rick and Jane (01:36.241)
Thank you, we're glad to be here.

Ruth Hovsepian (01:38.222)
Rick and Jane, your journey is nothing short of incredible. And walking across is a daunting task in itself. I just drove, you know, just around, I did a loop from Montreal down to Tennessee and then back up and I drove and that was daunting. But, you know, doing so with mission in your mind.

Rick and Jane (01:59.313)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (02:06.542)
to share your faith and pray for the nation is truly inspiring to me. Can you start by sharing what initially inspired you to take on this monumental journey and what was the spark that ignited this mission in your hearts?

Rick and Jane (02:27.889)
Well, first of all, I need to say that we are passionate about sharing Jesus with people and always have been. We've been in ministry together for 50 years. As a matter of fact, this Friday is our 50th wedding anniversary. And so we've been walking side by side of ministry for a very long time. And we both had experiences as teenagers that kind of lit a fire of passion in us about Jesus and about sharing him.

Ruth Hovsepian (02:40.43)
Congratulations.

Rick and Jane (02:54.289)
And so in 2005, we were traveling in full time evangelism. I felt like God was speaking to us about putting the souls of our feet down across our nation and claiming it for him. I was reading Joshua one chapter three or chapter one, verse three. And those verses just just rang true in my heart. And I felt like the principle was important. And so we started right then to prepare to walk across America. That verse.

Joshua 1 .3 is really what sparked us and challenged us to exercise that principle of putting our feet down. If you don't know that verse, I might explain. God asked Joshua to walk and he promised Joshua that every place he put the sole of his foot he could claim for God. And so that's what basically inspired us. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's where we started. It took almost a year to prepare our bodies and our hearts and our spirits to raise finances, all the things that were involved in it. But on January 1st, 2006, we started walking from Santa Monica Pier and walked to the Supreme Court steps in Washington, DC. We walked about 20 miles a day, six days a week for six months. And...

The steps that we took obviously were a part of the journey, but really we found out that it wasn't nearly as much about the steps as it was about the stops. The people that we met, the conversations that we had, the opportunities we had to share the gospel, the prayers that we prayed with people, that's really what the walk.

became about was the stops that God ordained for us to make along the way. Yeah, we had prayed in 2005 that God would ordain our steps and that he would give us divine appointments and he did. He showed up all the way across America. I mean it was incredible the people that we ran across and the ways that we ran across them and the needs that people had that we were able to meet and pray for.

Ruth Hovsepian (04:53.614)
you

Rick and Jane (05:11.633)
It was just amazing how God designed the whole thing. We would come around a corner and there would be five or six construction workers there leaning on their shovels like they were waiting for us to arrive. And they would look at us like, what took you guys so long? We've been waiting all morning for you. And we just saw that every single day. People out in the middle of the desert who were lost. There shouldn't have been anybody there, but...

People would drive up to us and ask us for directions. And we just saw it over and over how God ordained our steps so that we could meet the people at just exactly the right point in their life when they needed to hear that God loved them, that Jesus died for them, that they were important to him, that he wanted to have relationship with them. And we saw that so often that we just came every day, I think, to expect.

Ruth Hovsepian (05:43.054)
Hmm.

Rick and Jane (06:08.945)
You know, God, what are you going to do today? Who are you going to bring on our path today? It's very exciting.

Ruth Hovsepian (06:11.342)
I think, first of all, I find this very motivating and very inspirational. I know that when we step out in faith and we ask the Lord to give us opportunities to witness, we are open to that. We haven't closed ourselves off to it. And I have I've only started at the tip of that iceberg.

Rick and Jane (06:34.193)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (06:40.302)
And I know that when I took my trip, which was just recently, it was just a month or so ago, I was asked, why are you driving to down to Tennessee and back? Why can't you fly? But there was something on my heart about it. And yes, I was driving. So the opportunities were a lot less than yours, but I too prayed about it. And I thought, I'm being silly. Like who am I going to have these conversations? Well,

You know, in hindsight, there were things that happened. You know, I had to get a heat shield fixed under my car. And, you know, at the moment that it dropped and I, you know, it was embarrassing clanking noise as I'm driving through the border. I, when I went to that garage, as you said, it was as though, no, it wasn't as though it was the Lord's hand in that.

Rick and Jane (07:17.777)
Okay.

Rick and Jane (07:23.921)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (07:35.921)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (07:37.07)
gave me an opportunity to speak to the mechanic. And every day I saw the opportunities that the Lord was putting in front of me and it was up to me whether I took it or not. And if I didn't, I felt guilty because I knew that I should have and could have and actually, actually one time I turned back and went back into a store.

Rick and Jane (07:42.769)
Yeah. That's right.

Rick and Jane (07:49.041)
Yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

Rick and Jane (08:05.477)
Awesome.

Ruth Hovsepian (08:06.862)
I had gone to this little spot on the map where you don't see the name. It's one of those things in Indiana. I went to Vivi and it was everything. You've been there. Well, you know what I'm going to talk about? It's tiny. Everything was closed on a Monday morning. And I said, Lord, why am I here? I saw the name. I thought it was a cute name. Let me, you know, I had time. So I went in, as I said, everything was closed.

Rick and Jane (08:14.449)
You've been there! yeah!

Rick and Jane (08:30.193)
Cool. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (08:35.534)
So I stopped my car and just looked at what was open. And there was this gift store, Kathy's gift store. And I went in and there was another customer there. And they ended their conversation shortly after I walked in. So I don't know what they were talking about, but the owner turned to me and said, that woman was just so fascinating.

She was telling me all about tarot card reading. And I thought to myself, Lord, really? This, this is what I'm walking into. And then she said to me, isn't it fascinating? And aren't you interested in it? And I said to her, the first thing that came out of my mouth, no, not really. I have a book that tells me my past, my present and my future.

Rick and Jane (09:07.761)
Who?

Yeah.

Rick and Jane (09:28.657)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Ruth Hovsepian (09:30.094)
And she just looked at me, she goes, really? And I said, yes. And I said, maybe you even have that book. And she's looking at, she must've thought this woman was nuts, but the conversation of course went to faith. And I said, she said, actually, I have a Bible and you know, we talked through it. She found that I was Canadian. And I said, thank you. As I walked out, I said, Lord, prepare me for the next one.

because I just, it was a shock to me. It was, you know, as much as I had been praying for opportunities, it came as such a big surprise, a tarot card reading. But I think that's what it is, the opportunities. And I bet you had, my goodness, you must have had such amazing opportunities and blessings that came from it.

Rick and Jane (10:05.425)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (10:13.637)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (10:23.025)
Hundreds.

Ruth Hovsepian (10:28.75)
But were there any reactions where they were perhaps negative and, you know, they discouraged you?

Rick and Jane (10:35.505)
Yeah, I was just getting ready to tell you the story after you mentioned tarot cards. We were just outside of Grants, New Mexico, and we had begun walking that day and we had prayed specifically that God would do whatever he had to do to bring someone in our path. Because we were in the middle of the desert, there normally wouldn't have been anyone to talk to. So we said, Lord, just do whatever you have to do to put someone in our path to tell about Jesus today. So we hadn't walked.

maybe a half a mile, three quarters of a mile. And we saw a car pulled off the side of the road. And it was, we got closer. We noticed that this woman's tire and whole rear wheel assembly had fallen off of her car and her tire had rolled down into the desert. And so we walked up and I went out, got her tire and rolled it back up. And I rolled around to the back of her car and realized,

that we were in the presence of a witch. And she had Wicca bumper stickers on her car and all kinds of things. And I had the same reaction. Really, Lord, I pray for somebody to talk to you. You bring me a witch. And so, you know, realizing what the situation was, Jane said something to her about God must have really been looking after you.

Ruth Hovsepian (11:39.182)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (11:57.777)
that this hadn't happened going 70 miles an hour on the interstate. And she responded, I guess she was. And so we started the conversation and I said, I want to apologize to you. I said, this is my fault. I said, I just prayed right down the road that God would do whatever he had to do in order for us to have somebody to talk to. And I said, unfortunately.

Ruth Hovsepian (11:57.806)
Mmm.

Rick and Jane (12:22.225)
He had to knock the wheel off of your car in order for that to happen. So we offered her help and we offered to call someone. We had a connection in Grants, New Mexico with the pastor and we were going to try to help her out. Of course, she didn't want any help from us at all. But it was amazing and it is amazing when you pray for opportunities, you said earlier, first of all, you begin looking for them.

Ruth Hovsepian (12:33.294)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (12:36.91)
Of course, you had her wheel knocked off.

Rick and Jane (12:49.553)
And I think we miss most of the opportunities because we're not looking for them. We're not expecting them. And we're not sure we can handle them. But God promised that he would never put us in a situation that he would not put the right words in our mouth to be a witness for him and to share him. And so, I mean, you don't have to be a missionary and you don't have to be on a cross -country walk. There are people at the gas station. There are cashiers that you deal with at the grocery store.

And what Jane and I have noticed is many times as you walk through the checkout line and the grocery store, you'll notice that the cashier has been crying. And so it's a perfect opportunity to say, hey, is there anything you look like you might be upset? Is there anything we could pray with you about? Is there anything we can do for you? And those are all opportunities. If I see someone wearing a crucifix, I'll say, hey, I noticed you have a crucifix on. Does that really mean anything to you or do you just wear it as a

piece of jewelry. Do you know what that stands for? Those are easy things that everybody can do. But God gives us those opportunities every single day to share some part of the good news with people. And it may be just enough to entice them to want to know more. And that's what we always pray for. God help them to ask us questions. When we were in China, you can't be direct about witnessing. But if they ask you a question, you're allowed to answer.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:45.87)
Right. Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (14:10.19)
Right?

Rick and Jane (14:14.865)
So you find ways to always kind of bait the person into asking you a question so that you can answer that question about Jesus.

Ruth Hovsepian (14:23.598)
Yeah, I think, I think also it's taking time out, right? We in, in North America, I mean, Canada is the same as the U S and we're just busy. We're running from one activity to the other. We're always late. We're always trying to play catch up. And I think that if we are very aware of what we're doing, and as you said, we prepare, we prepare ourselves to meeting.

Rick and Jane (14:34.833)
Right.

Rick and Jane (14:39.097)
Yeah, exactly.

Ruth Hovsepian (14:50.734)
for the opportunities that the Lord is giving to us, then when that is presented to us, we are not so rushed that we miss out on that opportunity or think, if I had, you know, perhaps whatever, you know, done it because, you know,

Rick and Jane (15:09.905)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (15:14.83)
I had a situation where I walked, and that was what I was gonna tell you, I walked out of a place. I just didn't wanna get into the conversation because it was going to be a very negative one. I didn't want it. But I left, got in my car, started the car and drove away. And the Holy Spirit just kept saying, Ruth, you missed out on an opportunity.

Rick and Jane (15:29.137)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (15:42.542)
I turned around just before getting back on the highway and back, went back to the gas station. They must've, they really thought I was nuts. I'm sure they did walk back in and said, you asked me a question and I brushed it off. And I just said, I'm traveling. And this is what I'm doing. And yeah, the conversation was a tough one. It was, but I think when you're open to it, you hear the Holy spirit speaking to you.

and prodding you, you know, Jane speak, Ruth speak and do it. But I'd love to hear a little bit more about, you know, in North America, in the US, I found a lot more people who were ready to have these conversations because we're the same culture, we understand each other.

Rick and Jane (16:16.497)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (16:39.438)
But what is it like when you're, for example, you've been to India doing that. You mentioned China, Tibet. I'm really curious. Like, I've heard a lot about India. I've heard about China and how, as you said, it's almost a covert kind of, you know, a thing that you're doing, but what about a place like Tibet where predominantly their main religion is Buddhism?

Rick and Jane (17:05.777)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (17:08.334)
and anything like, you know, Protestantism, I can't even say it, or the Catholics are such a tiny, tiny minority. How does that look like when you are looking for conversation?

Rick and Jane (17:14.929)
Protestantism.

Rick and Jane (17:20.465)
Mm -hmm.

Rick and Jane (17:28.721)
Well, the reason we were in Tibet was our daughter had been there as a missionary. She was totally undercover. And her cover was that she was a student at Tibet University and she had to find something to do to to be able to witness. And the Lord led her to street children.

Ruth Hovsepian (17:37.23)
Mmm.

Rick and Jane (17:54.225)
And in Tibet, there are street children who are basically homeless. They are brought out of the mountains and dumped into the cities and kind of corralled by a man or a woman who they beg all day and have to give the money to this person.

And so she met some of these children and her heart just broke for them. And so she began a ministry to them where she did crafts with them. She would take them down an alley. She would give them the money that they needed for the day, which was a pittance to her. But she had people from the United States would send her crafts and things to do with the children's clothing. They never changed clothes.

They rarely had a bath or a shower, but there were public showers. And so she raised money and clothing so that she could take these children for a shower day and give them new clothes. And they wore them for months, the same clothes. And so we got to meet these children. We were not able to communicate with anyone on the street. We were just her parents.

visiting. But she had quite the ministry with these children and taught them about God and a lot about creation and about Jesus and they have.

Ruth Hovsepian (19:19.886)
Hmm.

Rick and Jane (19:34.193)
And there were others on her team that had other ministries that were also covert. They were all there undercover. It was quite an amazing. One day we took them to an amusement park. Well, what they call an amusement park, it was really quite meager compared to our big parks. But we took them there and it was so cool. We had to all cram into two different cabs.

Ruth Hovsepian (19:39.598)
Right.

Rick and Jane (19:58.129)
and the cabs there look like clown cars. I mean, they're tiny. Of course, you got some full size Americans here. All these little beggar children are piled up on top of you. And on the way there, these little children are singing Jesus loves me in Tibetan. Just an amazing, amazing thing. But, you know, sometimes we feel like it's our obligation to convince people to be a Christian. That's not our our responsibility. That's not our.

Ruth Hovsepian (20:04.11)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (20:13.198)
Wow.

Ruth Hovsepian (20:22.99)
Mm.

Rick and Jane (20:25.873)
our calling. Our calling is to be Jesus to people and let them see Jesus in us.

And believe me, when people see Jesus in us, it is so radically different than what they see in the rest of society that they will become curious. Maybe not with me, but with the next Christian who comes along and they see Jesus in them. Eventually, they're going to ask, what is it that makes you different? Why do you smile all the time? That's what the Chinese students always wanted to know from Jane. Why do you smile all the time? And once they ask that question, you can say it's because I have Jesus in my life. And I did. I said that right out loud. So, you know.

Ruth Hovsepian (20:54.03)
Right?

Ruth Hovsepian (21:00.014)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (21:03.345)
Don't don't be timid. Don't be timid. You know, I want to say to your your audience, those that are listening, don't be timid because you're afraid you'll be stumped by somebody's question. Don't worry about that. You just be Jesus to people. And you we prayed before the walk that God would give us the eyes of Jesus and see people the way he sees them. When I always tell people since the walk, please don't pray that prayer unless you mean it, because once you start seeing people the way he sees people, it'll break your heart.

Ruth Hovsepian (21:03.374)
I

Ruth Hovsepian (21:14.83)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (21:21.805)
Right.

Rick and Jane (21:32.785)
It'll tear your heart in half every day because we are surrounded by hurting broken people who need an answer and who want an answer and who are open to hear the answer. But first of all, they have to know that we care about them.

Ruth Hovsepian (21:48.014)
come to really understand the difference between meeting and opening doors and converting them. And I was of that mindset. You know, I think it's, it's our environment, the way I had perceived it, that every person that I spoke to, or every person I had an opportunity to, I had to convert them to my beliefs.

Rick and Jane (21:59.441)
Mm -hmm.

Rick and Jane (22:14.321)
Right. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (22:16.75)
I have come to understand through different, for different reasons, that that's not what my task is. My commission is to share the news and plant the seeds and the Holy Spirit will work through this person. And it could be someone else, you know, you're the opener, they're the closer, you know, there's different, we all have different skills and I.

Rick and Jane (22:29.585)
Bye.

Rick and Jane (22:39.505)
Right. Right. Sure.

Ruth Hovsepian (22:45.454)
I truly believe that that's what the Lord prepares us for. And we, we, you know, I, I think I would be remiss to say that we also have to prepare ourselves for the, you know, we, we need to, to be in prayer and we need to be walking solidly as well in our own faith so that when you come across a witch.

Rick and Jane (22:50.945)
Mm -hmm.

Rick and Jane (22:58.449)
absolutely.

Rick and Jane (23:02.673)
Thank you.

Rick and Jane (23:09.201)
Mm -hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (23:12.078)
or someone who's advocating tarot cards that the Holy Spirit is, you know, you're wearing your armor, the full armor of God, because it is spiritual warfare. And I do see that. I too have had recently an encounter with a witch. And.

Rick and Jane (23:12.113)
Right.

Rick and Jane (23:20.049)
Yeah, absolutely.

Rick and Jane (23:26.289)
It is. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (23:36.942)
It was dark. It was really, really dark. There was, I have never seen so much hatred in the eyes of a human before. A blackness. And she, the more we talked, the more agitated her spirit got. And I knew I was in the presence of, you could, it was,

Rick and Jane (23:38.449)
It is. It is dark. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (23:47.729)
Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Rick and Jane (24:00.145)
Right, right.

Ruth Hovsepian (24:06.126)
just the most, it was a spirit world. It is evil, pure evil. And I have come to understand that I have to have the full armor of God on. I need to go out in prayer. And I actually started to pray as she was just shooting darts at me with her words. And I just prayed and I said, Lord,

Rick and Jane (24:10.001)
It's evil. Yeah, it's just it's just evil. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (24:19.985)
That's right. Right.

Rick and Jane (24:30.865)
Absolutely. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (24:35.566)
I, this is, this is it. I stepped into something that wasn't you're doing, or was it me trying to be a hero in this situation, right? I actually questioned that. And I said, Lord, I'm giving this person to you. And I backed away from that situation because it was, it was palpable. You could feel it.

Rick and Jane (24:46.289)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (24:53.521)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (25:02.481)
yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (25:02.67)
And I had had my own personal experience with evil spirits. And that was when I was deep in addiction. And when I was at my darkest and the lowest, I grew up in a Christian family. I'm the child of evangelical believers. My dad became a pastor when I was a teen. I knew it. I knew the words.

And yet that night when I prayed or tried to pray, there were no words coming out. And I, I felt a presence around me that night in the darkness. And it certainly was not heavenly angels. Those were evil spirits because I was trying to get out. I was on that journey to sobriety.

Rick and Jane (25:31.825)
Right.

Rick and Jane (25:50.833)
Yeah. Right.

Rick and Jane (25:59.217)
Mm.

Ruth Hovsepian (25:59.63)
And that's what it was like when I was speaking to this woman. And it's scary. It really, really is.

Rick and Jane (26:01.649)
Wow.

Rick and Jane (26:07.393)
Yeah. When we were, are you going to talk about Tibet? I was. Go ahead. Well, that's why we need to be prayed up and have scripture in our hearts. But while we were in Tibet, our daughter wanted to take us to one of the temples. She wanted us to experience it and to walk through.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:12.846)
please.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:18.19)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:21.87)
Yes. Amen.

Rick and Jane (26:32.369)
And she said now to prayer walk, to prayer walk, you know, not to experience them, but yeah. So she said, now I suggest that you have some three by five cards, have some scripture written on them, because when you get inside, you're not going to be able to recall what's in your brain. It's going to be so overpowering. And she was correct. We walked in and it was just so heavy and so dark.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:34.574)
right?

Ruth Hovsepian (26:54.382)
Wow.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:58.318)
Yes.

Rick and Jane (26:59.313)
I mean, it wasn't dark, but it was just so dark. And so he had the cards and so we were trying to, you know, pray through. But I have to tell you what got me through Ruth was music. Because I'm a musician, I'm a singer, and I have Jesus songs in my head all the time. And even though I had scripture that I was ready to read, what came to my spirit were the songs. And, and, and

Ruth Hovsepian (27:02.254)
Yeah, yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (27:14.062)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (27:19.342)
Yes?

Rick and Jane (27:29.267)
and I could sing in my spirit. So I would suggest that to people as well to listen to Christian music, get Christian songs in your soul and praise and worship and to know how to sing about Jesus as well. One of the things that's so disturbing to me about our world right now is that darkness is permeating our culture and our society, not light.

for the most part, Christians are hiding their light under a bushel, which is what Jesus told us not to do. And what that causes, whenever you go into a dark place and you hide the light, darkness prevails. And if we were the light that we're called to be, light dispels darkness. It runs darkness away. Well, one of the things that's so disturbing right now is that our culture is so dark.

Ruth Hovsepian (28:04.942)
Right.

Rick and Jane (28:27.377)
in the United States and Canada and England. We're getting ready to go to UK in July for a month and the darkness is so prevailing and what strikes me about that is people don't even know they're walking around in the darkness. Our culture has become so accustomed to the dark that they don't even recognize.

Ruth Hovsepian (28:45.87)
Ew.

Rick and Jane (28:52.529)
There's a man who's an evangelist in UK and he says it's not just that people don't know, it's that they don't know that they don't know. And that's the next step down and that's where our culture is headed. When you took your little trip down through Tennessee, you were traveling through places where there's still a fair amount of light. The Bible Belt and people don't...

Ruth Hovsepian (29:03.502)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (29:15.638)
Right. Yes.

Rick and Jane (29:19.025)
always look at you crazy when they find out you're a Christian. When you go up north or you go to Canada or you go out west and you talk about Jesus, people look at you a little funny. And that's because you're light and they're darkness. And the Bible says, what fellowship has darkness with light? None. And so that's our calling is to let our light shine, to be salt, to be different.

Ruth Hovsepian (29:28.654)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (29:46.19)
Amen.

Rick and Jane (29:46.513)
to be the kind of different that people want to be. Most people don't want to be a Christian because they've met a Christian. Most people don't want to go to church because they've been to church. Sadly. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (29:57.358)
Yeah, I agree with you. You know, our testimonies, our actions, our testimonies, the way we, you know, we have put blinders on, we have become very accepting of sin and very accepting of the darkness. And when we compromise our faith, our way, when we compromise what the Lord has given to us so freely, we are

Rick and Jane (30:09.121)
yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (30:27.694)
we are turning people away, you know, and it's, it's, it is a very, it's sad. It breaks my heart, right? I mean, we live in North America, you know, in the United States was known for, you know, being the land of the free and, and coming in and new opportunities. Canada was known for that, for new opportunities. Well, we are in dark times in Montreal, here in Quebec, where I live.

Rick and Jane (30:30.385)
sure.

Rick and Jane (30:35.569)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (30:45.137)
Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (30:57.134)
the percentage of evangelicals is at 0 .01%. It may be now at 0 .015 % because there is a revival going on amongst the French because they are, they're the generation where the parents, my generation, grew up without God, right? Their parents were turned,

Rick and Jane (31:05.137)
Wow.

Rick and Jane (31:12.145)
Mm -hmm.

Okay.

Rick and Jane (31:23.409)
Wow.

Ruth Hovsepian (31:25.678)
were, you know, very stoic Catholics going to church, and then the next generation turned their backs on the church, and some very rightly so, because we are hearing stories and we are seeing things all across the world. And, but their children, my children's generation is searching. They're hungry.

Rick and Jane (31:29.521)
Okay.

Right.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Rick and Jane (31:49.505)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (31:51.662)
They are look, they're unhappy. I mean, look at the way the world is with, with all, you know, with Jen gender dysphoria with, with, with leaving Christianity and going to, you know, practicing yoga. And there's so much, right? There's just so much going on the music that they listen to. It's all because they're searching it. So the ministry is great.

Rick and Jane (32:01.745)
Mm -hmm.

Rick and Jane (32:10.865)
Right. yeah, so much. Right.

Rick and Jane (32:21.745)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (32:22.222)
And the UK, my goodness, what an amazing thing that going there because they are, I mean, it's boiling over, that pot is boiling. It's just.

Rick and Jane (32:30.673)
You're so excited. What we are praying for is this Generation Z, this new generation coming up. I teach at the university in town and what I'm seeing in college students is this great hunger for spiritualism, for some connection to.

Ruth Hovsepian (32:39.79)
Yes. Yes.

Rick and Jane (32:55.345)
God whatever they call him and it is we have never seen a mission field that is so ripe as we have before us right now. Jesus was right when he prophesied that the fields are white under harvest but the labors are few and so what people

Ruth Hovsepian (32:57.486)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (33:11.502)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (33:15.281)
what believers need to do, you know, we've perverted scripture a little bit. There's that Psalm that says, your word is a lamp into my feet and a light in my path. And we've kind of perverted that into thinking, okay, the light's just for me. As long as I can see where I'm going, as long as I've got the truth, as long as I'm going to heaven when we die, everything's okay. But the word is a lamp into our feet and a lamp to our path so that we can get to those who are living in darkness.

and shine our light, not so that we can keep it to ourselves. And so many Christians keep it to themselves. They never share it. I mean, if you go into a church on an average sunny morning and you ask people to raise their hand if they've shared the faith with anyone that week, you probably will see no hands go up. You might see one or two. And even the pastors many times can't raise their hand. Even the pastors haven't shared, you know? And...

Ruth Hovsepian (34:09.262)
I agree, I agree. I have a very unpopular belief take on this and that our churches have become very insulated, isolated away from reality, right? We want members in our church, but the church is for who? The believer. Reach out outside of those walls all the time and effort and money.

Rick and Jane (34:19.889)
yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (34:29.425)
Yeah. Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (34:36.622)
that we put into church activities. And please don't misunderstand me. I truly believe there's merit in that. We have young people, we need the same, you know, collective gathering. But if we put the same amount of time and effort and money and energy outside of the walls of the church.

Rick and Jane (34:57.777)
Absolutely. We're on the same page. It is. It is. The church has become a country club. We want members, we pay our dues, our tithes and offerings, we pay our dues and in exchange for our dues, we expect certain benefits. We want to use the fellowship hall.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:01.07)
Yeah, I know it's an unpopular take on it, and I get a lot of kickback on that.

Yes, amen.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:15.95)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:22.51)
Give money to the missionaries and they'll do your work. Yes. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (35:25.169)
And so we want to use the church building for our birthday parties. We you know, we want to have a place for our kids to get married. We want a preacher to bury us when we die. And so for membership dues, we get certain benefits. But the church was never intended to be a country club. It is a soul saving station. It is a place that is to be a lighthouse to a world that's in darkness and in a place where the saints are equipped.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:31.758)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:36.622)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:42.766)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (35:51.697)
to go back out. I mean, we don't just meet on Sunday and then live our life the rest of the week and then come back on Sunday. We get prepared on Sunday for the week. And a place where the loss can feel comfortable coming without being judged, without being ostracized, without being looked down upon. You know, I told every church that I've pastored, if you call me as your pastor, here's what's going to happen. We're going to start having people show up who don't look like us. They don't.

Ruth Hovsepian (35:53.742)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (36:01.518)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (36:11.118)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (36:19.473)
talk like us, they don't smell like us, they don't dress like us, because that's the people that Jesus came to seek and to save. And as long as we keep that little holy club atmosphere that everybody has to be cookie cutter the same, and anybody who walks in who doesn't meet that expectation, we ostracize. We have failed to be the church that God called us to be. I have always said that I'm a misfit.

and I've always pastored misfits. And I think the church ought to be the island of misfit toys. We ought to be the place where the people with without an arm or without a leg or without an eye or without a ear ought to come like the little teddy bears that are misshapen. That's the people we're supposed to be reaching. And when we walked across America, we routed ourselves through the inner cities, through the worst neighborhoods in the country on purpose.

Ruth Hovsepian (36:57.422)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (37:10.641)
because those are the people that we felt like God wanted us to take the message of Jesus to because everybody else is missing them. Churches don't go out and try to reach the homeless for the most part because they can't give any money to the church. They don't have the right clothes to wear to church. So they just avoid them. And that's what they did in Jesus' day. Jesus went to those people, the very people that the rest of society and that the organized religious leaders had abandoned. Jesus went to them and that's...

Ruth Hovsepian (37:17.646)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (37:22.798)
Yep.

Rick and Jane (37:39.473)
That's why they hated him so, because he was bringing in the misfits. He was bringing in the tax collectors and the prostitutes.

Ruth Hovsepian (37:43.342)
Yeah. Yep.

I mean, I talk to more women who have church heard and have left either the church or during their times of difficulty because they were no longer the model Christian have issues now that they are dealing with and going to the Lord. We as believers,

Rick and Jane (38:10.161)
Yeah, sure.

Ruth Hovsepian (38:14.606)
Instead of serving the hurt, the lost, the searching, the sick, we are serving.

The ones that are in the church already. And I think, you know, one final thing on picking on the church is the church also needs to disciple and teach those sitting in the pews comfortably. Well, I'm sorry, not the pews. I'm aging myself, not the pews on the chairs, whatever they're sitting on. They need to disciple them.

Rick and Jane (38:27.441)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (38:33.745)
Hahaha!

Yes.

Rick and Jane (38:45.521)
In the chairs.

Ruth Hovsepian (38:53.614)
Show, you know, like go back, build a prayer life. How do you do that? Read the Bible for yourself. Get to know the word of God for yourself. Question what your pastor says or that speaker says, or that author says. And then what is the next thing? The great commission. It wasn't just given, you know, to, to Rick and Jane and Ruth and Tom and I don't know who else it's the great commission is for.

Rick and Jane (38:58.609)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Rick and Jane (39:07.793)
right?

Rick and Jane (39:19.089)
Yeah. For all of us. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (39:23.214)
Every single one of us. And we can do it in, as you said at the beginning, in our own way, in our own circle. You're a busy mama with kids. Take a moment. Speak to the cashier. Pray over her. I think that's what we're missing. That empathy. We're missing empathy. And if we are to mirror Jesus, we are failing.

Rick and Jane (39:31.149)
Yep.

Yep.

Rick and Jane (39:44.601)
Yeah. True.

Rick and Jane (39:51.441)
Yeah, we have come to the place where we are coddling the saved in the church rather than washing the feet of the lost and that's what Jesus modeled for us. He did not coddle the religious leaders of his day. He washed the feet of sinners and that's, man that's hard.

Ruth Hovsepian (39:52.526)
painfully painfully failing.

Ruth Hovsepian (39:58.19)
Amen. Amen.

Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (40:13.934)
Yeah.

Rick and Jane (40:15.569)
That's hard for church people to get. It is so hard for them to understand. I went to a church in Colorado in view of a call one time and they were asking me how I would reach people that needed to be in church. And I said, well, we're going to serve them. And I said, we go downtown and we're going to offer to wash the toilets of their restrooms as a way of serving them so that we can show them the love of Jesus. And we had a man who was sitting there and he said, I ain't washing the toilets.

Ruth Hovsepian (40:18.03)
Yep.

Rick and Jane (40:46.321)
And I thought, you mean to tell me that if washing a toilet would cause somebody to come into the kingdom of God, you're not willing to do that, really? And we won't even wash each other's feet. We won't even serve somebody a meal. We won't even allow somebody into our building. Sometimes people say, would you let so and so come into our church? Yeah, I sure would. I've had church members leave before because.

Ruth Hovsepian (40:58.926)
Right. Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (41:06.478)
Yes.

Ruth Hovsepian (41:11.982)
Yes.

Rick and Jane (41:12.017)
They asked me, would you let a gay person come to the church? And I said, well, them coming to the church doesn't mean I'm putting my stamp of approval on their lifestyle. It just means that I love them like Jesus loved them unconditionally. And I want to tell them the good news. But anyway, we probably shouldn't pick on the church so much.

Ruth Hovsepian (41:20.334)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (41:24.494)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (41:28.462)
I know, but you know what? I've come to the realization and 2024 is about this and I've actually, I'm not that popular. I'm just doing what the Lord has put on my heart to do. And yet recently I've gotten a few messages and emails saying, stop picking on the church. If you pick on the church, and I'm like, Lord.

We're rocking the boat. Let's go for it. So I want to do it even more now because I want to shake the church. I want to, I want to shake this institution, the, the, the building, the church, because that's not what it's about. And I I'm you're right. If for today, I think we've said enough, but I really want to, I mean, it has been such a blessing speaking to you. I could keep asking you tons of.

Rick and Jane (42:01.041)
Yeah. huh. Yeah.

Rick and Jane (42:21.897)
I'm sorry.

Ruth Hovsepian (42:29.838)
questions, but thank you so much. I hope you will come back and I hope you come back after your trip to the UK because we need to hear some positive things that are happening and by positive meaning interactions between you and others who are searching. So I thank you so much, you know, Rick and Jane for sharing your incredible journey.

Rick and Jane (42:32.529)
You're very welcome. Sure. Anytime. Okay.

Ruth Hovsepian (42:58.35)
And inspiring me, I know you're inspiring so many people with your unwavering faith and dedication. And really your story and your testimony is such a powerful reminder of what can be achieved when we turn to God and ask God and follow his calling. So to our listeners.

Rick and Jane (43:06.545)
Thank you.

Ruth Hovsepian (43:24.75)
I hope you found today's episode as uplifting and motivating as I did. And I know that I will be even more diligent in praying that God give me the opportunities on a daily basis. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe to out of the darkness and share this episode because I think that this is so motivating and encouraging to others. And don't forget to.

Go and check out the website. All the information will be in the show notes. There's so much on their website. And, you know, subscribe to Out of the Darkness and you'll be updated on upcoming episodes, hopefully with Rick and Jane. And until next time, keep shining your light and walking in faith.

Rick and Jane (44:17.521)
Amen. Thank you Ruth. Yes, thank you.