00:17 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
Welcome to Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hoff Sepien. Today my guest is an amazing woman. Her name is Lucinda Halls. She's a speaker, teacher and Jesus girl, and I love that Today we are going to be talking about parenting special needs children, and Lucinda is very qualified to speak about this as the mom to an amazing young man named Thomas who has autism. Welcome, lucinda, I cannot wait.
00:47 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
Well, thanks. Thank you for having me and thank you for the nice shout out about speaker and teacher. And yeah, I think parenting is full time, typical or atypical. And so Thomas is 19. And then I have a daughter who's going to be 21 in like two weeks, and is there ever a time where you're not a parent? I don't think there's. Where's the mops group for that?
01:15 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
I need the adult children mops group. No, there isn't. I have a. My oldest is 32. My youngest is going to be 27 in June. Listen, that it never stops.
01:28
And I never understood it when my parents would say that I'm 58. They still say that, you know. So I think it's, I think we are, I think that we are born with this DNA in us to be nurturers and to be carers, and I know parents that. You know, I live in a culture up here.
01:50
I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in Quebec, especially here in Quebec, the tendency is your child turns 18. And they kind of get shoved out of the nest to survive on their own. And as a European immigrant, like my parents immigrated here we never understood that and as a parent I had to balance the two extremes, where you have 30 somethings living with you and and there's nothing wrong with it If it happens I think there's many good reasons right now for that to happen. But I had to find a balance, you know, and my kids kind of left in their 20s. They either got married or moved out on their own. But even as an empty nester, your brain is still on them and you pray for them, and I think I pray even more for them now. I feel like that's true, so true.
02:48 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
And like for Thomas, for our son that is on the autism spectrum. He is classified as nonverbal, he has significant developmental delays and so, like, what does the future look like for for him? Like, will he ever like? Our goal for him is always, has always been, for him to be what god has created him to be. Does that mean that he's gonna live like in a, in a group home someday? Maybe that would be great. Maybe he'd live somewhere with, with a roommate awesome. Will he live with home, at home, with us and who knows? You just kind of like so many things in life, you have to hold them with open palms, open hands and be like all right, lord, I trust you do, I trust you do, I trust you.
03:41 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
Yeah, yeah, I have to trust you yeah, listen, you know it's hard enough having children in, and I've, I've always said this, you know, like I have three children. They all have very different personalities and characteristics and you know they're, they're who they are and I wish they came with a manual, but they don't. So you know, I always say that parents who have special needs and it could be for anything, right, whether it's just a learning disability or, you know, like thomas, with whatever it is, you know it, there's always something that we have. It does, it does stretch your abilities as a parent. It's hard being a parent.
04:32
So I can only imagine how, how do you reconcile with yourself when you hear that your child has autism or, in your case, you know was autism. How does that, how do you process that?
04:56 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
It's so, he's 19 and we had we received a diagnosis for Thomas when just before his third birthday, so it's been a while since, since we've been on this particular journey. Um, to be honest with you, when we first got the diagnosis, when he was three, um, my processing was, uh, not so good. I'll, to be honest, I was. I was angry with God because in my weird twisted theology brain, I was, I was a good Christian, I did all. I did the Bible studies and I did the volunteering and I did all of these like outward things that somehow in my brain meant that, um, I wasn't going to, I didn't deserve like any of these, like hard stories.
05:58
Now I can tell you now that that theology is not right. Right being a Christian is not a get out of trouble free card. Having a child on the autism spectrum doesn't, isn't, isn't a punishment from God. There was a while there where I kind of struggled with with that Like, have I done something that he's mad at me? But it is just real life and this is the real life that we have. God is still faithful, he is still trustworthy and I I kind of went through, I'd say, a good year of just like I'd still go to church, ruth, because you don't want people to know that you're struggling. Have you ever like faked it?
06:48 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
You're like I'm still going to go to church. Oh yeah, listen, I faked it for at least 15 plus years, more than that, maybe 20 years of going to church and living a double life. So I totally get it. You know, and I think it's very difficult because we are told right, as children of God there are, we have all these blessings. And you know, come to the feet of the cross. You know to come to the foot of the cross and everything will be better. But I've come to understand now, because now I know my Bible, that nowhere in the Bible does it say come to the foot of the cross and every care will be taken away and every illness will be taken away.
07:42 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
Right.
07:43 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
You will not struggle in life. It doesn't say that it does not think we need to talk about that. You know, in church, yeah, it gives you the strength. So so this is what I think right. It doesn't take away things, but we definitely are equipped to deal with whatever comes our way, whatever life brings to us. You know, whether it's an elderly parent or a child dying, or whatever the situation is financial, we just are equipped to deal with it. And I think we need to remember that, that very fundamental basic understanding of what it means to be a child. I think that's true.
08:34 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
I think and to be. So. We, we, uh, we have a saying in our house. We all have special needs. Some of us are just better at hiding it than others, and you know as, as Christians, some of us are just better at hiding it than others.
09:06
And you know, as Christians I don't think we're always up in church. And then that whole time period that I call my twenties, that we are kind of like in a box, that somehow, like going to church was on this in this box, and then like my lifestyle was in a different box, Um, but you just kind of as long as you pretended hear you, sister and you had kind of this facade of christianity that that it was all okay, um, but I think jesus is so much better served when we can be honest about how we're struggling, because life is life.
09:42
Life can be a struggle, but God is there. And if you don't show, so what? One of the things I've learned with having a son on the spectrum, at least for my faith, is that if I can be honest with other people about what I'm struggling with with Thomas, about what I'm struggling with with Thomas, and then also share how I'm trusting God in that or how he has shown up in that, it's so powerful, so powerful.
10:23 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
No-transcript yeah, you also have to be honest with yourself. Right, oh yes, that that things are, you know, not necessarily right, and and I think that I think that goes across the board for all of us in whatever we're struggling, we need to accept that there is a struggle in our lives and I fall into that as well, into that pit of trying to hide things you know and and covering up hard times in my life. An example of it was I recently spoke at a retreat and the day I arrived at the retreat center I got some news from one of my kids and it shattered me. Nothing life threatening, nothing that cannot be dealt with. I just want to put that out there. But it was very troubling news and in the past I have always buttoned it up, put it away, buttoned it up and gone on with a very, you know, like smile on my face and everything is great. When I was asked. Well, at the retreat, my cousin was there and she was the first person that saw me the moment I walked out and she looked at me and she said are you okay? And honestly, listen, I'm telling you the words were right there to say, oh yeah, everything is great. And then I said to her no, this is what I've, you know, I have had to deal with right now. It made a difference.
12:18
And then the one of the deacons the women deacons of the women's group, who's gotten to know me over the last year came to me and said Ruth, the Lord has put it on my heart to pray for you. Oh powerful, what can I pray for you, isn't it? And again, my first inclination was of course, I'm speaking right. I'm bringing them the message of whatever the message was. How can I show them that there's a chip in my armor right? I'm bringing them the message of whatever the message was. How can I show them that there's a chip in my armor right, that there's something wrong in my life? But again, I had. What is it with us, right? That we don't want people to think that we're struggling? I don't know what it is. I do know, but it's just how some of us are right.
13:10
And I ended up sharing with her as well, and it really lifted the burden, can I? How do I explain this to someone? Right, I've shared it with two people in a very secure environment, people I trust in a very secure environment, people I trust who prayed with me, who you know, who were praying with me over the week, and I tell you I had a peace over me that just surpassed all understanding. And I keep repeating this recently, over and over. I have a piece that surpasses understanding and it really has come from sharing with the right people the struggles and having people pray. And I think you know, when we as parents are struggling, we sometimes want to give off this impression of I'm a great parent, us as parents. Right, I know it's so true, it's hard.
14:37 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
It's yeah, I don't know how to. Yeah, yeah, it's that authenticity. I think that and I, when you had asked earlier about you know being honest with yourself, I think you said there's a tight. Yeah, you have to be honest with other people. The first thing you have to do is to be honest with yourself and how you are struggling with either. Feeling like you're not up to the task, feeling like you feel completely inadequate.
15:08
And there is, there's, a mourning process when we got the diagnosis and you realize, like this idea that you have for what your family's going to be like and what your, your kid's, life is going to be like where it's, it's, it's you know athletics and he's going to be on the football team and he's going to get, you know, awards at school and he'll go to college and he'll get married and all of these things and all of those dreams. Pardon me, I mean it sounds harsh but they die when you have a special needs kid. The reality is you don't know for sure what's going to be the future for any of your kids.
15:55
But to have that reality kind of hit you when they're three is it was just hard and so you have. You kind of go through these stages of mourning with okay it's, it's not going to be what I expected and I still have to choose joy in that I have to do the Romans, the Romans five, the um, we, we have our tribulations, we rejoice in our tribulations, which honestly rejoice in our tribulations.
16:27 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
What but it?
16:27 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
says it rejoice in our tribulations, which honestly rejoice in our tribulations, what? But it says it rejoice in our tribulations because tribulations bring about proven character. Proven character brings about hope, and the hope that doesn't disappoint with Jesus Christ. And it's that whole spectrum of of kind of working through as a parent and being able to say, okay, I'm going to choose joy, my kid is nonverbal but he can at this. So say, when he's three, he's nonverbal but he can, on an iPad, type the word to let me know what he wants. Okay, there are some kids that don't have that ability. Um at at at five. Uh, we're going to go to kindergarten. Okay, I, we wanted to um in.
17:26
In the United States it's called mainstreaming. Instead of putting him in a special needs class, we wanted him in a least restrictive environment, which is, which, for us, was our local public school where his sister also attended Um. But to send your nonverbal kid, with developmental delays and social delays and doesn't speak, to school was a giant leap of faith for me, ruth. It was uh, but it was. I knew it was what God wanted us to do. We had the. The district provided an aid for him, so she, you know, was with him all the time to kind of navigate for him. And at kindergarten the the difference between their academics wasn't as pronounced Like. There were lots of kids that couldn't read kindergarten there were lots of kids who didn't know their whole alphabet. Actually, thomas knew the whole alphabet, but that's, that's a part of his autism.
18:30 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
That's, that's the amazing part of it.
18:32 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
Right, but you, you just have to kind of give that to God. It's like, okay, I don't know how this is going to go, yeah, and if it worked, it worked. And if it didn't, it didn't and it did. But it's you. I sent my daughter to kindergarten and I cried because I wasn't going to get to see her every day, but she would come home and she would tell me everything that was going on. My son had been sent into kindergarten for a completely different reason and I'm crying because I think I'm the worst parent ever. I've sent my nonverbal kid to school.
19:13 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
We are so hard on ourselves.
19:15
It's amazing how we just yeah, we don't give ourselves some grace to be, able to deal with it, because it's not just the parenting to be able to deal with it, because it's not just the parenting like I. I think about this. You know, as as new, newly married couples, we get pregnant. You know, we get pregnant, we have dreams for our children, as you said, for our future, what that entails. And suddenly our future, what that entails, and suddenly it could be anything right, it could be just an illness that your child has to deal with and it changes everything. And it's not just your dreams for your child and your hopes for your child that suddenly change, but the dynamics of the couple as parents. You know, on your marriage if you have a career outside of the home, changes.
20:26
That's true, you know your involvement with yeah, you know your, your your involvement in church activities with friends and family. I, you know we need to. I think we need to stop and think about this for parents who are dealing with this on a day-to-day basis. And I'm not saying throw a pity party, because there are blessings in everything, but I think there are ways that we maybe can support them, you know.
21:04 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
I would say that is. That's definitely. That is definitely true, because in my experience being a special needs parent, it can. It is very easy to self isolate because, at least for me, your kid doesn't. When you're, when you have little kids, the natural kind of thing that you do is you go with other moms or families who have little kids and the kids play together and you build relationships with those parents.
21:39
When your kid doesn't, he did not interact with other kids the way typical kids do, and that is and I can say this now, but I couldn't say it then I thought it was, I was embarrassed, even though it was, it was just how he's wired and I thought it was a flaw in my parenting. And so it is easier to definitely not better. And so it is easier to definitely not better, easier to self-isolate and just pull back from a lot of those relationships. But what that does is you're lonely and then you let the devil get inside. Instead of like godly voices and voices of other moms, you've got the devil's voice in there saying you're not a good parent. No one's going to like you because your kid, instead of playing with cars on the carpet that has all the roads and stuff on it. That was kind of cool.
22:44
When my kids were little, thomas would line up all of the cars in a row. Cool, when my kids were little, thomas would line up all of the cars in a row and if a kid came over and took one of those cars to put on the carpet with the road, he would melt down because he had a system that he was working on. Um, and so it was. So as a parent, as a special needs parent, it was embarrassing and we would. I would just kind of like excuse myself and and would like look for a new church. So, but what? What I? What I found, or what I have found, is if you can find people in a church who are willing to at least have a conversation at all the different age levels, because we always felt like when we were putting Thomas, when we put Thomas in any situation, it's never just about him, okay, it's about all the kids that he's going to be around.
23:44
It's about all the kids that he's going to be around. We want it to be a benefit for them to see that not everybody thinks the same way as they do, not everybody talks the same way, not everybody interacts the same way. It needs to be a growth thing for everybody. God is creative, yes, and he created all of us in his image. Just because Thomas has autism does not mean he's not created in God's image. Just because someone has cerebral palsy doesn't mean that they are not created in God's image, that they are not created in God's image Just because they are, you know, matt Damon or Chris Helmsworth or some other like chiseled ideal of what humanity is supposed to look like. We are all made in God's image, and when we kind of take these segments of the population and hide them away, we're hiding part of God's character yeah, I agree with you.
24:54 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
I think that is true for any parent with a child that you know maybe does not act the way you know. The norm is in our society, right, and I think that we have done a disservice to parents when, when, instead of trying to come alongside them, support them, help them and say what can I do, ask them what can I do, we make snide remarks or we pull away because we don't know how it will affect our children. And there are children who, under society's standards, they're normal, but they don't necessarily act the way everybody wants. And I remember when my kids were young and were on the bus, they had this young child with them. You know, maybe the same age as my daughter at the time. They were, I don't know, maybe like six, seven years old, I don't even remember and he would, he was a nasty child and he would hurt people and say things and do things, and and my daughter and my and he would pick on my son who was, you know, two, three years younger, and my daughter would say Mom, I don't know what to do. This is what's happening.
26:24
And I had to sit down with my children and say to them you don't know what this child is is dealing with at home. My first reaction as a mom was taking this child and shaking this child and saying leave my kids alone, stop hurting people, right? Okay, that's, that's, that's a normal. I think that's a normal reaction as a parent. But but there was a moment of sanity and I said, lord, how do I deal with this? And I said, okay, it's a teaching moment. So I kept repeating this and do you know what? Repeating this to my children worked on my own heart and softened my heart.
27:11
And years later, years later, my daughter said to me Mom, you know what this young boy, when he was doing all of these things in school and on the bus, his parents were going through a horrible divorce and we didn't know. You know, I and here I am, you know, trying to teach my children to behave in the right way and not shake this kid or tan his hide there you go, but it wasn't to me it. Yeah, come on let's. Let's say it the way it is you know.
27:55
Let's do the old school. That's how I I was the strict parent. You know the kids like to come over, but I was very strict here. But really I'm just saying this because on the surface, we see children who may act out, who may not behave the way we think they are, that we do not know what is happening, either behind closed doors, or if they have some kind of learning disability that has not been diagnosed or is not being dealt with. I think that this is not just a church thing, but the churches need to actually know how to deal with this as well.
28:35
It's a family right. We are a church family. How can we help you Listen to? How can I come alongside you and help you in this? What?
28:50 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
can.
28:50
I do for you I think coming along, like you said, coming alongside and just having conversations. So when Thomas was young and it's a continual conversation because all kids change and grow that's the same for special needs kits. For Thomas it meant he needed if he if so he gets overstimulated when he was younger he would get overstimulated very easily and he would start to, he would squeal and that of course disrupts everybody else in the room and I, I totally understand that. But a way to, uh, what we would do at home is we would just kind of let him leave, whatever group situation they were were, and he would go sit in like a beanbag chair because for, for, for his brand of autism, kind of that pressure of of being kind of semi-surrounded with the beanbags kind of soothed him Now a typical kid and the cocoonings thing right, it's this, it and that kind of helps decompress him a little bit.
30:05
So it's those conversations that you have with with the church, um and and it you have as a parent. It can't all be on them, it's a conversation. I am a teacher Before I was married. I taught for, like I feel like forever and I look back, ruth, at the things that, like I look back at kids in my classroom that I remember thinking, oh, please, let them be absent today, right?
30:33
I mean but I look back with autism eyes now and go, oh my gosh, he was on the spectrum and I would make this kid sit in a chair and hold his pencil correctly, and all of these very like I. You know I'm a type A firstborn. This is how you know right Amen. All of us firstborns that have a special needs kid, because God was like oh honey, you don't have control and I'm going to.
31:13
this is, this is how we're going to learn Um and so, and I think of that and I'm like, oh my gosh, that kid could have totally like sat on a bouncy ball and it would have been fine. So it's if I could say to ministry leaders uh, children's ministry, um, you know, just have those conversations with parents and kind of have like a little arsenal somewhere in a closet, have, have a couple of beanbag chairs, have some noise canceling headphones that you can very quickly you know put, let you know, let a kid have, and that kind of it helps them, kind of you know soothe, and then have conversations with the rest of the kids, helps them, kind of you know, soothe, and then have conversations with the rest of the kids. I feel like a lot of times it's oh, thomas just needs to sit in the beanbag chair. But why does he need to sit in the beanbag chair?
32:08
Take it as a learning, a teaching opportunity. You know, God made all of us different. Thomas needs the beanbagger, or have have the parent come in and talk. Um, it is. I will tell you the latest thing. Can I share a hilarious story?
32:26
Of course, Okay, well, I don't think it's hilarious now, but like two weeks ago, I was just mortified and thinking, wow, okay, it's time to change churches. That's awesome. Um, so Thomas is in high school, he's a senior and his high school group they've been together all like elementary school all the way up. Thomas is just Thomas, right, they, they know him, they love him. Um, he has. I'm just I'm just going to say this like he's figured out that girls are different than boys. And when? So when a typical boy um talks to a girl, when they're when they're when they're first, like figuring all this out, right, they get anxious, they get nervous, they I mean no offense to all the men out, the young boys out there, but they're not, their brains are not fully formed and then you throw like testosterone in there.
33:37
And it's a time it's a ticking time bomb.
33:40
It is a time bomb. Okay, so we have discovered recently that, like because Thomas, he's looking at girls like sideways, but then like looks away and I'm like, oh, okay, well, this is a typical response. So one of these adorable little like freshmen or soft men sophomore girls come up and want to talk to Thomas because they are great group of kids. And so she's like hi, thomas, how are you, how are you, how was school today? She's, you know, being this just a sweet little thing. And he's anxious, he's nervous, he doesn't know what to do with all of this stuff, right, and so he drops the queen, mother of all cuss words on her, the one that rhymes with a duck, and runs away.
34:43
Because if you have to edit that out, I apologize, but his response to being overwhelmed and anxious and all of those things was just kind of to let this thing fly out of his mouth. And I was not there. His youth group leader was there and she was just shocked. Right, duh, I mean, you're in your youth group and this boy you're trying to be nice to oh goodness, let you have it.
35:21
um, and his youth, his, his leader, of course, laughs because that's what you do, uh, yeah, and so he told me the story and I'm like did you talk to the the girl, did you tell her why he did that? And and he said well, no, I just thought it was really funny. I'm like did you talk to the girl, did you tell her why he did that? And? And he said well, no, I just thought it was really funny. I'm like oh my gosh. So here we go. I'm like okay, teaching moment. Here we go, teaching moment.
35:48 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
Yeah, yeah. But if, if we were, I think. I think you know, I think this is a great example as to why we need to have a sense of humor. I'm telling you it's, it's. We need a sense of humor because it has it's. It's not a reflection on the parents, it's not a reflection on the family, it's, it's just what it is. It. You know, I love it. Thank you for sharing that. I think that's great. Uh, and then to really work into relationships.
36:36 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
I can go to you, know that young lady and her parents and and just be like, okay, so this happened today. This was not about you, sweetheart. You did exactly what you should have done, but think about him as as a, as a boy, and not just Thomas, and just having that conversation. And how much humble pie do I have to eat in my life? I mean, I'm stuffed. That's why I'm overweight. Because of all the humble pie I have to eat I get to swallow, I get to work on my pride and go to these parents and the beautiful young lady and explain the big picture. Right, it would?
37:45
have been much easier if I had just ignored it and been like you know whatever.
37:50 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
But there's no learning in that there's no learning in that?
38:04
No, no, yeah, and you know we could have a whole other conversation on. But there's no learning in that. There's no learning in that, you know, with the energy and and getting out there, especially in, you know, in 2024, when kids go home and end up spending all the rest of the day in front of the tv or their computer or their, their phones or whatever, it is right, there's no energy coming out of them. I don't know how parents do it, because I know my kids had a. Well, I mean, they're older, so there wasn't, you know, the same kind of pressure on them.
38:43
But I tell you, sunday, like Monday to Friday, there was no TV. There was one computer at home that they were allowed to use on the weekend when someone was around, and if they were given homework and I was a parent, that was a pain in the behind to the teachers, because I would always say why do teachers presume that everybody has a computer at home and that kids can use a computer? You know, remember my kids. You know my oldest is in her 30s now, but I've always said that that there has to be different teaching styles for every child and we need to let kids be kids. A whole other conversation there, listen, I can come back.
39:27 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
I want to thank you for learning styles a different time. Roof I I will I love that a lot of opinions about that.
39:41 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
I love that. I love that we really have to do that and I want to thank you, lucinda, for being here today and being so transparent and honest with things, and I love it and I'm glad we can laugh about things that you know other people may think oh, it's just so hard, so depressing, and I know you're not laughing all the time and I know that there are tears and I know that there are heartaches. With all of those, I know we are, I think, very similar in how we cope with the stress in our lives. We crack jokes, we laugh and, yeah, yeah, I think we are. But thank you so much for being here.
40:15
And to our friends that are listening today and watching, I want to remind you that your likes, your comments and your subscribing to this podcast on your favorite podcast streaming platform or on youtube makes a world of difference in getting this message out to others. Share this episode with someone you know who may be dealing with this situation or something similar to this, and let's grow our community and the support that we give to each other. Check out the show notes for Lucinda's contact information and let us know your thoughts on this subject, and you know if you have questions. I'm sure Lucinda is ready to to answer and you know, give her grace, she's not going to pop in and answer everything at all at once. But thank you so much, lucinda, and thank you so much everyone for being here today.
41:09 - LaCinda Halls (Guest)
Thank you, it was my pleasure. We'd love to have more conversations, absolutely.
