Father Loss and Faith: Practical Tools for Healing and Growth with DAVID PRICE

How do you overcome the challenges and trauma of losing a father at a young age? David Price, a certified life coach, Christian minister, husband, and father, joins us to share his powerful story and provide valuable insights for those facing similar situations. Through his coaching programs and personal experiences, David aims to uplift others by emphasizing the importance of fatherhood, faith, and practical tools for healing.

During our conversation, David talks about his journey through anger, bitterness, and the search for a father figure after losing his father as a child. He shares with us how his experiences have shaped his role as a pastor, husband, and father and how he strives to guide others in need of a father figure. From overcoming unreasonable expectations to dealing with grief, we explore the significance of maintaining a balanced approach in life's challenges, leaning on faith, and taking action.

By the end of this episode, you'll discover the power of generational prayer, the benefits of surrounding ourselves with supportive individuals, and the essential tools to overcome personal struggles and losses. Join us as we delve into David's story, and his inspiring mission to help others experiencing father loss find their strength and healing.

Connect with David Price:
Website: www.TakeBackYL.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100015415965649
Podcast: Take Back Your Life

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Chapters

• 0:00 Overcoming Father Loss and Trauma
• 8:53 Finding Father Figures for Others
• 15:47 Fatherhood, Faith, and Practical Tools
• 27:42 Overcoming Unreasonable Expectations and Grief

Transcript

0:00:00 - Speaker 1
Today we are speaking with David Price, a certified life coach. He is a Christian minister, husband and father. He overcame a life of frustration and anger to create joy and abundance and now helps others through his coaching programs. Join us today as we talk about what it is like to overcome the loss of a father at a young age, to become a man without the foundations that a father would typically give, and how to help those that feel that they cannot overcome their own losses or struggles. 

Hi, I'm Ruth Hovsepian. Welcome to the Out of the Darkness podcast, where we help you navigate life's trials based on faith and difficult truths. Welcome, David, to Out of the Darkness today. I'm so happy to have you here and to discuss the subject of loss and the journey that some of us have to go through because of it, and the trauma that may set in for some people. Before we get into the main subject, if you could tell us a little bit about who you are and what your ministry looks like today? Sure. 

0:01:25 - Speaker 2
So I'm originally from Kentucky. I'm now in coastal North Carolina. I've been here for going on 20 years. I've been in ministry, i've been a pulpit minister for over 30 years, been married for almost 30 years and we have three children in their 20s as well as a grandson. So in addition to ministry, i'm a high school Bible teacher, i coach sports for over 20 years and I'm also a certified professional life coach. I've been doing that for about the last six years and I have a couple of programs one for men and women general goal achievement And then also have one for angry husbands and fathers who want to stop being that. 

0:02:07 - Speaker 1
That is I've never heard that before teaching to angry men and women, but I think that we all have an element of that in ourselves. We may not admit to it, but I think we do Take us a little back, a little ways. I know you're probably only 29 years old, but take us back to yeah, that's your story and you're sticking to it. 

Take us back to when you lost your father your dad and tell us a little bit about how that looked like and affected you, because you weren't a baby. You are old enough to realize that loss of a father in your life. 

0:02:53 - Speaker 2
Yeah Well, i'm an only child. As anybody who knows me will tell you, i'm the prototypical spoiled only child. But so I'm an only child. My father died when I was seven. He was 44 and he died at work or collapsed at work with a heart attack and died later at the hospital. But when I saw him that morning when he went to work, that was to be the last time that I would see him. My mother was waiting for me and I got home from the babysitters that day and told me that he had died that day And it was traumatic. 

I mean, it was, you know it was. I lost everything that I was supposed to have as far as a model, a teacher, you know, someone to look to and look at and watch, to learn how to be a man, how to be a husband and father, how to fix stuff, how to play sports, all that kind of stuff. I lost all of those things that you know I was supposed to have, and so I really allowed that to be an excuse For me. I'm a slow learner. It took me about 30 years to figure out that something needed to change. But I really allowed that to be an excuse in my life for not being what I was supposed to be a lot of dysfunction, a lot of failure, a lot of mediocrity, a lot of anger and bitterness, mistreating other people. And so it was. You know it was. It was a tremendous loss for me, but I allowed it to be a much more negative experience than it needed to be, simply because of the choices and the excuses that I made. 

0:04:34 - Speaker 1
You've said so much that I have a lot of questions and thoughts going through my head at the moment. But you know, if we can, you know, just maybe just address some of the things that people might be thinking about. but you were so young and how did that affect you And I I'm going to ask you to address that. but I also want to add that I went through a divorce when my youngest child was five months old And as an adult today, you see the effects of that loss in her life And I no longer subscribe to the way of thought that young children do not understand or are affected by these losses in their lives. How and what do you say to to people who say to you but you were seven, how can you of attach so much merit to losing a father at that age? 

0:05:35 - Speaker 2
Yeah, well, I mean, the biggest thing is that unless you've been through it, you wouldn't, there's no way you could address it with actual knowledge. I mean, anybody would say something like that hasn't been through it. I did go through it And you know, and studies show that it's just a fact, that the children, even in the womb a children can are affected by the presence of their mother and their father obviously their mother, but their father as well. That children, even in the womb, who do not have an attachment or a relationship with their father, are affected by that baby's need to be spending time with their fathers. Even infants are affected by not having a relationship with their father. So you know, I'm a Christian. 

I mean, I believe in the Bible, I believe in the book of Genesis And I believe that God made people and families to function in a certain way And that when you, it's just like any anything with moving parts if you remove A moving part, the thing will not function as well. And that's not, you know, to call anybody out or make anybody feel bad. A lot of broken families today, a lot of dysfunction today, a lot of single parent homes, just like I was in, And my point isn't to make anybody feel worse than they already do, But the fact is that God created the family to be, you know, a mother and a father and the children, And when you don't have part of that, I don't care what the age of the children is you're missing something that you were supposed to have had, And it's very challenging then to overcome a lifetime of not having what you were supposed to have had. 

0:07:23 - Speaker 1
Yeah, and having seen it firsthand with my own children, i 100% agree on this. There is an element of loss, and not just the loss of someone in their life. But I have said that as a single parent, because I never remarried after I got divorced there is a lot missing in the family unit, you know, and people would say to me Oh, you're doing so great. No, i wasn't. I. I never found that balance between loving on my children enough and yet disciplining on my children or disciplining my children as necessary. How do you? I could not find that happy medium. I was either loving them too much or disciplining them too much, or just not doing either one because I was exhausted. But I understand that, right, because we have. 

I too believe that God created such an amazing family unit. There's the father, the mother in there, the man and woman having their rightful place, and I think we become mirrors of each other. Right, as you know, the mother may do a certain thing, the father steps in to fill in the blanks, the father does something, and it's such a beautiful dance right As a family unit. So we do feel the lack of a parent there. And you know, tell us a little bit about, as you got into your teen years, not having a father figure. And I don't want to presume that there were no other men in your life like you know, grandfather or uncles, whatever, but I never want to take away the fact that a father's place in the house cannot be replaced. You know there could be great, you know, not replacements a great fill in a filler, but never the father right. How, how did you cope with the teen years, which are very difficult to start off with? 

0:09:32 - Speaker 2
Yeah, well, it was a hot mess, so I had to put it, to put it bluntly, and there were men in my life, three in particular men in my life, friends of my family that were male, masculine influences that I very much need. I'm very grateful for them. So that was a big part of that. And one thing that I have tried to do is to be a father figure to other boys and young men and to girls to a degree. Obviously, you have to be careful with that with you know different relationships and that kind of thing. 

But you know, as a coach, as a teacher, as a minister, i interact with young people all the time, and it's always been very important to me to be a father type figure. First of all, you never know who needs it, and so I think that we should try to put ourselves in that position to all the young people that we come into contact with, just in case they need it. But you know you can't have too much of a good thing, even with people that have a wonderful relationship with their dad. You know more is better, and so I think that's important And I encourage men to do that. I encourage men to volunteer to coach sports to you know to. However, you can get involved in the lives, particularly the lives of young men, and be father figures to them, because we need them now more than we did when I didn't have mine. We need them even more now, and so the need is great And men need to be doing that, and I've tried to do that, but it was difficult for me because, again, i was missing a model of what I was supposed to be doing and where I was supposed to be going. 

And to this day, ruth, in any group of men I feel the least masculine, the least manly. In any group of men I feel the least capable, the least worthy. I always feel less than around other men, and then, in particular groups have been other ministers, other sports coaches, other business owners. I always feel like the least capable there, and a lot of that is because I did not have a man there every day, day in and day out, to be learning from, to be giving me feedback, to be teaching me. I just didn't have it, and so I always feel very, very less than because of that. 

0:12:29 - Speaker 1
Do you find yourself having to prove yourself over and over or felt that you had to prove yourself to people? 

0:12:37 - Speaker 2
It's kind of funny, Ruth. I guess it can kind of go both ways. I guess you can go that way. I didn't I chose weakness, I chose checking out. I chose not trying, not working at anything really hard. I just sort of checked out and my excuse was I don't have a dad. What am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to succeed? What's the point? And so sort of my mantra for many, many years was do as little as possible to get as much as you can, And I did that for a long time. So I was sort of the opposite of proving myself. I just I just didn't much try. 

0:13:20 - Speaker 1
How did that play into you know, as you became a pastor? because I know you said you've been in ministry for 30 years or so and you know you have children. How did that affect you as you first let's talk about you becoming a pastor because, or in a minister's role. How did you feel about that? Because part of that you know is almost like a. I would hope that as a pastor and a minister, you have that fathering, nurturing side of you right, because you are the shepherd of a congregation or a group of people. How did that affect you as you started that journey? 

0:14:05 - Speaker 2
I probably a complicated question. It's a great question but it probably has a lot of nuance to it, as you can imagine. But I think probably so. I've always been a like a helper and encourager of my favorite Bible character other than Jesus, his Barnabas, because he was. Every time you see him he's encouraging people And I've always been that way, most likely because you know, i was raised by my mother. 

I was raised by a woman only and probably have a little more nurturing side to my personality than I might have had otherwise, and so my mother tells the story. 

One day I came home from school and just broke down and started crying and she asked what I was wrong And I said that everybody comes to me with their problems but I don't have anybody to go to with my problems, and so apparently I've always been sort of person that people could come to And that's a very big part of my identity, and so probably it served me well because I do care about people, i'm very much a people person, i'm very much a helper of people, which, as you said, is a huge part of ministry, and so it probably served me well for that, as far as some of the other maybe, sort of type A stuff that you need in ministry. 

I've never been much of a type A person, and so it probably hurt me. I know it hurt me in a lot of the well, the being excellent, the striving to be excellent. I didn't do that for a very long time. I was satisfied being mediocre, and so it really hurt me in that way. So I guess there's a lot of different nuance to that, but that's an excellent question. 

0:15:47 - Speaker 1
How did you translate your experience into fatherhood for yourself? you know to be a father to your three children. 

0:15:57 - Speaker 2
Well, the biggest thing that I got from the loss of my father was that you can go anytime. He was 44, which, you know, for a long time seemed old to me, but now I'm 55. 

0:16:10 - Speaker 1
Yeah, but it's mind boggling. 

0:16:12 - Speaker 2
Yeah, i realize how young that is to die And so, yeah, in a lot of ways, ruth, and I think in the most important way, i determined early on that I was going to be the most present and involved father that I could be. I was I'm a highly imperfect father. I always have been. I still am much better than I was so highly imperfect, massively deficient in a lot of ways, but I was always there. I coach my kids and all the sports that they played. 

I was at every recital, every play, every event, and I know a lot of dads can't do that, and I don't say that to say, hey, I'm an awesome dad And if you've missed anything, you're not. 

I don't mean that at all, but because I had a very flexible schedule, i was able to be at everything my kids did And they were always my priority. So, in a lot of ways, losing my dad was a blessing, because I understood that we're not guaranteed a single second And so I was going to be there for everything that I could, and I was never. You know, i wasn't going to get to age 70 and look back and go. You know I should have spent more time with my kids, ruth. I've spent every minute that I could with my kids because I lost my dad so young, and I don't regret a second of it. So in a lot of ways it made me a better dad, a more present dad, more involved, which I'm very happy about. In a lot of ways, though, it handicapped me, because there are a lot of things about being a husband and a dad that I didn't know how to do And I sort of had to figure it out as I went along, to varying degrees of success, as you can imagine. 

0:17:58 - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, i think, first of all, there's no perfect parent. We are all imperfect, but you know, with God's grace, and you know, listening and learning, i think it's being a parent or a husband or wife is something that we strive for on a daily basis And that's how I always tell people. you know, like, when I'm asked, you know, how did you do this, how did you do that? Well, i didn't do it perfectly, i was in the moment, and I think that's the only way to deal with it. you know, And you are in the moment. you are present to your children at that precise time. You can't think out into the future. I mean, and I'm not saying be negligent and don't think of the future of your family, but at the moment, be present. 

you know whether it's with your spouse or with your children, and I believe that, as Christians and that as children of God, we need to turn to him for those areas that we struggle with. right, we all have an area of our you know our character or personality where we need to work on, and unless we're trying you know, if we're trying to do it on our own, i think we set ourselves up for failure. I think that we all struggle with subpart of this, whether we have parents in the home that maybe we're not present or we're just not good parents. right, not every man or woman who has children make good parents or have been good parents. But how did you find that your faith played into it? Because obviously you went through a journey where you went from you know being as you said, i believe you said mediocre. I don't want to put words into your mouth That you know just sort of coasting. 

Yeah, just you know like, and we've all done that right. There's a time in our lives where sometimes we just kind of coast through a season. But how did your faith, how did your trust in God help you make a change in your life? What was that? what's the point that helped you with that? 

0:20:15 - Speaker 2
Well, so what drove the change was hitting rock bottom and being at a point where something just had to change or I was going to check out I mean it. Just it was horrible, horrible time in my life And I knew that just something had to change. And so I reached out to a friend and he shared some resources with me and led to a lot of other resources And I began to undergo this transformation. But I think that I think that one thing that did not serve me well, that I think a lot of times as Christians and as churches, we don't serve each other well, i think that we failed to connect our faith with practical tools and practical instruction and that sort of thing that connects what we believe as Christians to day-to-day life. I think this happened to me. I think growing up I got some tremendously wonderful sound theology, some wonderful moral teaching, wonderful instruction and examples and all of those things. But one thing I think that sometimes we kind of fall down on is, as the church and as Christians, is really giving people on the ground okay, here's what you do with that, here's how to handle stress, here's how to change your mindset, here's how to deal with grief or whatever it might be, and so I have always had a strong faith. I haven't always had strong practice by any means, but I've always had a strong faith, so my theology was great. 

What I was missing was the knowledge that God had given me the ability as one made in His image, as a Christian one, and dwelt by His Spirit, that I had a lot of strength and a lot of ability to take control and do some things. And this is where the disconnect was for me, because I had heard people, ruth over the years, talk about praying to God and God. Just all of a sudden, everything changed and they never struggled again. And that was some of the worst testimony, if you will, that I ever heard, because then I was waiting for that to happen to me And it never did. It never happened, and so I was waiting, waiting, waiting and wondering why God wasn't reaching down and flipping the switch, and He never did. 

And what I needed to know was that I was made in God's image, i was indwelt by the Holy Spirit, i had the ability to take control, to take responsibility and to make changes in my life, that God had given me this ability, he had given me His help, he had come in and saved the day. I just wasn't holding up my end of it, and so, really, i had all the knowledge. I didn't have any of the tools, i guess, and so once I learned to use the tools things that I teach now in my coaching about taking responsibility, dealing with a negative mindset, creating your life vision, those sorts of things So I don't know that that really is a great answer to your question, but what it brings up for me is sometimes, as the church we're great at theology, we're not real great at practical day-to-day tools, which is really what I needed. 

0:24:05 - Speaker 1
Yeah, i'm on the same page with you on this, having grown up in the church and seen the shift and the change in a church, never and I'm not talking about the building, i'm talking about the body of believers how we change and shift over the times right With what's happening around us in the world, in society and in the cultures around us, and there were a couple of things that you talked about that you know. I just want to drill down a little bit, and that is we are not helping our young people with practical ways to deal with issues. It's honky-dory to give people verses and great stories, but how you know when a person is in the middle of a conflict or is struggling with an addiction, or is having problems with a marriage or problems with their child, telling them to go and pray is not enough. I believe in prayer. I am a great proponent on prayer because I believe prayer brings change, but we need more than that. Prayer is not the only way to achieve this when someone is in such despair that they don't see a way out, and I always I want churches and lay leaders and leaders in the church to understand that, yes, we need to reach the souls of people, but we also need to reach the physical aspect, not just. You know, when we talk about it, we're always talking about putting a roof over their heads and taking care of their. You know day to day, but there's more to it. How do you become a good husband or a good wife, a good father or mother? What happens when you know your child disobeys you? How do you react to it? I think these are things that we need to talk about, because if it's not being talked about in the home, then the only other place is within the church. 

And I think conflict is another area right Where we're afraid of addressing conflict in a believer's life, because believers I mean you know correct me if I'm wrong, david, but believers never have conflict, right, we're just on the right, right. We come on, we shouldn't have any conflict. We're children of God. I don't know, i sometimes struggle with the things I heard and honestly, i heard this from a couple of people in the last couple of years. Where, in the last year and a half, where? but as a believer, i shouldn't have these conflicts. Why am I still struggling? Why is it that we you know, some of us have this misconception that you know we come to the feet of Jesus, we give over our lives, that everything is going to be perfect. 

0:27:31 - Speaker 2
Yeah Well, it's not just a misconception, i mean, it's a horribly damaging. One of the things that we deal with in coaching with people is a lot of times is unreasonable expectations. Much of people's stress and unhappiness does not come from what's actually happening. It comes from the disconnect from what's happening and what they expected to happen. And so when your expectations are unreasonable, i'm going to become a Christian and all of a sudden my marriage is going to be healed and my kid, my relationship with my kids, is automatically going to be wonderful, and those kinds of things You know, we know from just reading the Bible. I mean the life of Jesus. He was the man of sorrows Paul was, you know, suffered all sorts of terrible things. So what we need, as you said, is the church, is to give people the tools to handle that. 

One of my favorite verses is in the book of Nehemiah. As Nehemiah and the people are rebuilding Jerusalem and the temple and the walls and all that, and the enemies of God's people came and surrounded them and were about to attack them. And there's a wonderful verse in that context where Nehemiah says we prayed and set up a guard. And I love that. If Nehemiah were around today, a lot of Christians would go just give it to God, let go and let God just pray about it And then don't worry about it. Nehemiah said we did pray, but then we all grabbed the sword and we made sure that we were defending ourselves too. 

And so, as Christians, that's exactly what we need. You know, i see this all the time. When people are struggling and somebody will say just give it to God, just give it to God. First of all I don't even know what that means, i don't even know what that looks like. But secondly, if I did, there is you do need to give it to God. But then God, you know, david said in one of the Psalms he trains my hands for war. David was not sit around and pray to God and let him defeat Goliath kind of person. He grabbed the sling and went out and fought, and so we need those tools to be able to do that as well 100%. 

0:29:52 - Speaker 1
You know I, i, you know my part of my testimony is that through prayer I overcame addiction. But ask me if it was prayer that got rid of my addiction. It wasn't, it definitely wasn't. What prayer did was gave me the strength to do what I had to do to overcome my addiction on a daily. Wait a minute, not even daily on an hourly basis. Because I needed that strength, i needed a place to go to and say Lord, i'm really struggling, help me up. Because who on this earth would have listened to someone who struggles with an addiction to go constantly and say I need this, i need that? That was where prayer came into play for me. 

So I too, i'm very careful when, when people you know come to me, i will. I'll never throw them that line of take it to the Lord and prayer and leave it there. I understand that there are. Having said that, i understand that there are certain subjects I pray and leave it for the Lord. If I'm praying, for example, for the salvation of my children, right, or some other family member, i will pray to the Lord and hand it to him, because as a human, as a mother or sister, whatever it is, i cannot bring these people to the Lord. I can love them, show them the truth, but they need to open up their hearts, right, they need to listen to the Holy Spirit. That's a whole other type of prayer And I believe in generational prayer, right, you know, i I've seen it in my own family, where my grandparents prayed for family that they had never met face to face, had spoken to, maybe on the phone, and prayed for for many decades And after their death. The fruits of their prayers came to fruition when these family members came to the Lord and were baptized and have now have, you know, a mission field of their own there. 

But yes, i agree with you on this, you know there's there. It's great to say go pray, but give people also the tools to be able to, to prepare for it. What is some of the? what would you tell someone that came to you, whether it as a pastor or or in as a coach, and said you know, i can't get over, whatever it is, this loss. It could be a loss of a spouse, loss of a child. How do we overcome And I know that this is a huge subject, but what are some words that you can give to someone that says I cannot overcome the loss, the feeling of sadness. Does it ever go away? What? what can you give them? 

0:32:51 - Speaker 2
Well, sir, as you said, it is a big subject. Several things come to mind. One thing that we do is coaches ministers also have to be great listeners, and so if someone came to me and said what you just said, ruth, what jumps out to me in that statement is the word can't. That's where I would begin. If a person believes they cannot do it, then the fact is they cannot do it. I don't care what it is. Henry Ford I think it was Henry Ford said whether you believe you can or believe you can't. Either way, you're right. And so I was just talking to one of my clients earlier today, and he's dealing with an issue where he feels a sense of of he's incapable of doing a certain thing. Well, as long as he believes that he is, he is, he cannot do it. And so the first thing I would do is address that issue of I can't. I always will not hear somebody say that That's the first thing we deal with. I can't. And so there's lots of ways to do that. 

You know, one thing that we do is say has anybody ever been through what you're going through and dealt with it successfully, whatever that might mean? Has anybody ever been through that and dealt with it. Has anybody ever had a terminal diagnosis? Has anybody ever been become a paraplegic? Has anybody ever lost a parent and dealt with it successfully? Well, yeah, some have somebody somewhere has. Okay, so if they have, then what's keeping you from it? Well, typically what you get is well, they have something I don't have, and so then we can get into. We can look at what you do. Have the resources you have the capabilities you have. Have you ever dealt with anything difficult before? Have you ever been through a hardship before? Have you ever overcome adversity before? Have you ever? you know all of those kinds of things, and so we help people look at their own life and see that they have more strength than they think that they have. They have more resources than they think that they have. They have examples of other people who have done the thing they think they cannot do, and so there's really a lot of ways that we can do that and help them to overcome that. 

What we need to do is to get them to a place of ownership. We need to get them to a place of accepting responsibility and believing that they can do it, and then we begin to work on that. So we have people answer four questions Who are you blaming for whatever situation you're in or how you feel? Who are you blaming, what are your excuses, what are you waiting for And what are you complaining about? And that helps people get in touch with their the degree to which they're not taking responsibility, which most people are not. 

And then we give them some mindset tools, some ways that they can address that. I can't do it, mindset, or I don't have what it takes or whatever. There's a lot of tools that we do around that, so there's a lot of ways that we can do that. But the very first thing we start with is that statement I can't do it As long as they believe that there's no way we're going to move them off of where they are. We've got to eliminate that idea of I can't. And then you know skies to limit. 

0:36:07 - Speaker 1
What is one piece of advice that you would could share with my listeners who have either gone through a loss or you know, as a father in a home having to deal with you know situations that they feel inadequate because of some kind of trauma from the past or loss in the past. 

0:36:33 - Speaker 2
Well, the main thing and I probably said this 10 times already, but it really, and the more I do this and the more I talk about this, just the brighter this one thing shines, as being the kid was the key for me. It's what, where I started with my transformation. It really is the foundation of everything, and that is taking responsibility for your life and everything in it. The situation is what it is And you know, chances are very good that you cannot change it. You can't do anything, most likely, about the situation. That person has died. You cannot bring them back. A spouse has left. You can't make them come back. Your child is on drugs. You can't make them get off drugs. 

You know, whatever the situation is, you're probably stuck with it, and so you have one of two choices at that point. You can allow that to be a defeating, negative, miserable experience. That's a legitimate choice you can make. Or you can say the situation is not changeable. But my experience of the situation is very much changeable, and so I think about you know, at the end of Jesus' earthly life, i think about Peter and Judas. Peter and Judas both had a moral breakdown, a moral failure. Both of them wept. Both of them were devastated by their moral failure. Judas went off and committed suicide. Peter was restored to faithful service. They both had a moral failing of momentous proportions, but they dealt with it in different ways, and so, whatever the situation is that you're facing, you're probably not going to be able to change it. What you can change is your own experience of it And the way that you change. That is, by dealing with your own mindset toward it and the actions that you take from now on about it. 

0:38:48 - Speaker 1
I love that comparison of Judas and Peter. I had never thought of it that way. You know, we all know the story and how both you know Judas and Peter. but, yeah, i like that. I have to. when we end this, i have to go think about that and really, because I love that, that's an. that's such a great example of how two people in the same situation decided to deal with it differently And the outcome was so amazingly different. David, i really want to thank you so much for your time and your wisdom today and sharing your story with my Out of the Darkness listeners and to my friends who are listening. Check out the show notes on how to connect with a David Price and please subscribe and share to grow our community. Thank you, david. 

0:39:45 - Speaker 3
Thank you, thank you for joining me. to stay connected, Follow me on Instagram and Facebook. If you like this podcast, can you help me find new listeners by leaving a rating and review? This small step takes only a moment, but really helps grow the listening audience. So let me thank you in advance. I hope you have a wonderful day and until next time let's continue on our journey as followers of Jesus Christ. I am Ruth Hovsepian.