The Power of Honest Communication in Relationships: A Conversation with Life Coach ANN VISSER

In this episode, we dive deep into communication and relationships, exploring the importance of essential skills such as being honest and vulnerable and expressing one's feelings and needs. 


We're joined by life coach Ann Visser, who shares her own struggles with communication in her marriage and how learning these skills transformed her relationships. We discuss the power of rewiring our brains and shifting our focus to improve relationships and communication, touching on the role of faith in understanding ourselves and our emotions. 


We also explore the challenges of maintaining peace and the potential for growth and healing when we embrace open communication and self-awareness. In our conversation, we uncover the importance of finding the "gold" in conflicts, which can lead to deeper understanding and insight within relationships. 

We discuss the three C's of pivotal conversations: checking emotions, communicating and clarifying, and creating "we" solutions. These strategies can help navigate difficult or sensitive conversations and foster a closer connection with others. Join us as we explore how to navigate difficult relationships through effective communication and personal growth. Don't miss this insightful and inspiring episode!



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Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Difficult Relationships Through Communication
• 13:04 Rewiring Marriage Communication
• 28:27 The Three C's of Pivotal Conversations

Transcript

0:00:00
We were passionately in love with each other when we married, as so many couples are. But I was pregnant the month after we were married, and then we had five children in six years. And my husband was really busy where he's a farmer. Any works long hours, and I often felt like I was a single mom. And we got to the point in our marriage where I we were sitting in our farm truck outside or favorite restaurant. And I looked at him and I said, I can't do this anymore. Hi. I'm Ruth Hovsepian.

0:00:35
Welcome to the Out of The Darkness Podcast. Where we help you navigate life's trials based on faith and difficult truths. For over twenty years, Ann Visserhas been equipping individuals and organizations to communicate in a way that aligns with their values so they can lead their families and their teams into a better life. I'm Visor is a life coach speaker and trainer with for better forever, which she co founded with her husband. She is also a certified John Maxwell team coach speaker and trainer. She has been married for forty one years and has five lovely children and eleven beautiful grandchildren. Anne equipped Christian women with communication skills for better relationships. Welcome, Anne. I am so thrilled to have you today on out of the darkness. And to discuss communication skills, I think that is something that as a generation, we are losing how to communicate with one another. We are in the instant relationship kind of scenario. So let's start off with you telling us a little bit about your own journey and what you are doing currently. Well, thank you so much, Ruth, for the opportunity to be here on out of the darkness podcast. It's an honor to meet you today. And it's an honor to speak with your to speak with you and share with your audience.

0:02:08
So, yeah, I am Ann Biser, and currently working virtually online teaching. I've been working for twenty years, working with individuals and organizations. To help them communicate in a way that aligns with their values. So often, I think we communicate and we think we're good at it, but we don't do it very well. We've been doing it for a long time. We started when we were, like, do something. And -- Yeah. -- yeah. So people don't understand what we're saying or we're misunderstood. Stood or we misunderstand the most important people in our lives that we truly want them to know us and understand us. So that we feel this sense of belonging and love and tenderness within our relationships. And and I do what I do in teaching couples and young people and students and singles and singles again because of my own story. And and I am so passionate about it because it has made such a difference. In our lives, in our marriage, it has completely changed the way we do relationship.

0:03:15
And we were Christians, but we didn't have the skills that we needed, essential skills to be able to communicate and to be present in communication. Because we were so afraid of conflict. Yeah. I I hear you, but before I go off on a tangent, Can you give us what some of those essential skills are? Whether it's in a marriage or between a parent and a child or friends, What what are the basics that we should know?

0:03:51
What I was missing was number one, I was afraid of conflict. And so I hid and I felt the shame and needing to hide myself, needing to hide the ugly parts of me, what I thought were the ugly parts of me and not being honest and vulnerable in my relationships. And I think that's a big part. It's like essential to feel connected in our relationships that need, that necessity to say I'm feeling that necessities say, I I want. And I think as Christians, we kinda push that away, oh, I shouldn't be wanting anything. I should have everything from Christ. But there are things that we need and things that we need and want in relationship that we need to be able to express because when we don't express them. Our people don't know who we are. And that's such a big part, essential part of relationship, of connecting, of attachment, and Psalm one hundred and thirty nine is full of god knows us. He knows our hearts. He knows our ways. He knows us before we get up, before we lie down at night. He knows our hearts. It's such an essential part of relationship with him. Hand relationship with each other. And so that ability I was missing, I could not identify what I'm feeling what I'm thinking because it was such a muddle. It was such a a tangled web of thoughts because we think so many thoughts in a day. Yeah. That I couldn't really express what was most important. Many of the thoughts we think in a day are not helpful. They're not even true because there's so many of them. And I needed the skills to be able to identify, this is what I'm really thinking. This is what I'm really feeling. This is what I'm worried about today. This is what I need so that I can actually express that then. To my people. And those are essential skills. And then that essential skill to be able to listen to your heart, to your experience, to what you're feeling, to what's going on today for you, and I have had to learn those skills so that we could be better together.

0:06:10
You know, we actually got to the point in our marriage. We were passionately in love with other when we married as so many couples are. But I was pregnant the month after we were married and then we had five children in six years. And my husband was really busy or he's a farmer, and he works long hours. And I often felt like I was a single mom. And we got to the point in our marriage where I we were sitting in our farm truck, outside our favorite restaurant. And I looked at him and I said, I can't do this anymore. And he said, what do you mean? Like, I could see that panicking in his eyes. What do you mean? What do you mean? You can't do this anymore? He said, I can't do marriage like this anymore. We just keep hurting each other. We don't resolve anything. I'm so tired and I'm so hurt.

0:06:58
And that pivotal conversation expressing very simply what I'm feeling, what I need, what I want, like, I want us, but I don't want it like this. It it it hit hit hit his heart in a way that opened him up, and then he started to talk about what he was feeling. And his pain and I had completely missed his pain. I hadn't seen his pain, Ruth. I missed it. I think I was so busy caring for all those little needs. In a in a family that I hadn't seen him. And he's the adult, so he should be able to look after himself. Right? And I missed his pain, but that night he opened up. This is who I am and this is what I want. This is how I'm hurting. And we made a commitment to each other. We're gonna get the help that we need in order to get well again. I tell my people that's the best and bravest thing that you can do in the world is get help. And I think that we there's a time that we all need help.

0:07:57
But sharing your story about your marriage really made me think about my own marriage in the situation I had been in. And unfortunately, mine did not have a happy ending. And I remember so distinctly at at a certain point, and I had approached my husband and said, I can't do this. Same as you, you know, there was something there that needed to change. And I did not know, as you said, how to express what I was feeling. All I knew was there was something happening. There was there was a need but how to explain or or separate the need from the emotions and you know, all of these guilty feelings. And I remember saying, we need to go see someone and we need to see a counselor. Unfortunately, he did not have or fortunately for him, he did not have an issue with what was happening. Right? So it became a one-sided thing. And -- Mhmm. -- anyway, it it it didn't end well because we were not on the same page. We did not get the help we needed.

0:09:12
Neither one of us fought for what was important for us. Our family and you know, and to me, that is that was such a precedent that you need to to have these discussions and you need to be willing to fight for what you believe in and you know, when my kids got married or two out of the three are married, I said to them arguing between each other, there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean your marriage is failing. It just means you're fighting for what you believe in and want to keep, you know. And I think we do a disservice to our children, making them think that relationships should be perfect. Right? And communication is not needed. How can we how can we rewire our way of thinking? If we were not brought up to have good communication skills or even to communicate with ourselves. How do we rewire ourselves? Or can we rewire ourselves? And there has been so much research done on that rewiring of the brain and it's a big part of what I help my people do is to help them re sync what it is they're thinking, what it is they're saying, what they're focused on, because focus, it changes the way we approach people.

0:10:44
And I remember a time when I focused I was focused on, like, a really bad attitude, Ruth, and I was focused on Like, you can't do anything right and everything you do. I'm right. You're wrong. That was that was my stance. Oh, right. You're wrong. And I didn't realize it though until he brought me flowers home one day. And for no apparent reason, it wasn't he didn't have any reason to bring me flowers. And my first thought was, what do you want from me now? Wow. It's like, oh, like, it's that was my thought. It was like, where did that come from. That's awful. Like, what's going on here? Because his motive was innocent and it was to be kind and to do something nice and I knew that was it and yet I had this thought. What do you want from me now? I wreck you guys had a problem. And I ran to God, like, literally, I ran to God. I said, God, I have a problem. Help me. And I felt like he was saying, can I want you to write everything good about this man? And this now God changed my mindset. Write everything good about this man. Okay?

0:11:46
I was in a really bad place and very resistant to do what I was called to do, so I took a posted note. Very small. Post notes as well. Because I knew I wasn't gonna have much to write. One word. One word. I started to write and I had more to write than what I thought. And I surprised myself, and I flipped the page and I had more to write. I put that posted note in a place where I would see it every day. He wouldn't, but I would I read it every day for about a month. Mhmm.

0:12:20
And I didn't notice any difference in the beginning. But about a month later, he called from work. He was kinda cranky. And he said, I'm gonna be late for work, and he hung up the phone, and he never ever does that. He doesn't hang up without saying goodbye. And he hung up the phone and I hung up the phone and I thought, he's having a really bad day today. That doesn't sound like much, but to me, I did a happy dance right there because I knew my mindset my attitude toward him had changed, and now I was seeing his hurt. I was seeing him from a different lens instead of seeing him as all wrong. I was seeing him in a different perspective.

0:13:04
And that's one way that we can change our mindset or rewire our brain is by the things that we think about in the bible talks that think on these things. Yeah. And so what we focus on determines what we think about and how we see the people around us. And it's so incredibly powerful to see people do that work of rewiring their brains. It's so it's such a gift for me as a coach. To be able to sit in the coach's chair and to witness. I get to witness people as they rewire their brains and as they think different thoughts and as they have different perspectives and and how that impacts the relationships around them. It's just so incredibly exciting to me to see and to witness others growth in that process as they rewire their brains.

0:14:03
And and I don't think that every marriage can be saved nor I do I think that every marriage should be saved. But I do think that sometimes we'd give up to So -- Yeah. -- before we do the process, I think once we walk the process, they said, give me some time. Let's walk this process, and then we'll see what you have in the end. Because as we make changes and we get better, sometimes the people around us, they get better too. Yeah. As we start to change the steps of the dance of relationship, they start to change their steps for better, but we don't know what we have until we walk the process and see what happens in the end. There is so much noise around us that, you know, it just crowds out the important things and the thoughts that we should be having.

0:14:51
And I always recommend that, you know, when women come to me about their struggle and what they're going through and I'll say remember back or try to remember back to the day you first met him. And that feeling you had, what was it that you fell in love with him for? What was it? Remember that man and remember that young woman that met him? And sometimes that we forget that. Right? We we've got so many responsibilities that we forget who the other person was and why we fell in love with them. And we just forget to show our appreciation as well to the other person.

0:15:41
And to me that's you know, it doesn't matter if it's in in a marriage or with, you know, your people, it could be your parents, your children, your friends. I think we need to have that. In place as well, you know, showing them how much they mean to you no matter what no matter how bad, you know, things are. I think that's that's we all like to feel bad. I mean, I do. You know? Yeah. Absolutely. We all wanna feel that sense of being valued -- Mhmm. -- and I hear women say the word treasured. I wanna feel triggered and I wanna feel like I matter. Yeah. I wanna feel like we're part of a team. I hear I hear women say, terms like that, but but we all want to feel that sense of value. And and men do too. They wanna know, we all need to know that we belong and that somebody in the world cares about us and that we our lives matter.

0:16:41
How how can we improve the communication in a marriage if one of the spouses is not a talker. More, you know, comes from a family that doesn't know how to express feelings and, you know, the the nice words, like, you know, you're I love you or you're special to me. What can we do? And so in our own marriage and we my husband is not he's a talker, but he doesn't necessarily say the things I wanna hear. And so but I have learned that I need to teach him how I the words I want to hear and the things that me I need to hear in order to understand that he does love me. And so I asked for those things. And I used to think that if well, if I have to ask for it, it's not gonna be genuine. Yeah.

0:17:40
I still remember the day that I was standing by the kitchen sink, and I said to him, it was a bad day. The children were were they they had all had a bad day. It's a bad day when everybody crashes on the same day. And they had all had a bad day in the same day. I had a bad day. And I was upset, and I I looked at him and I said, I just need a hug right now. I don't need you to fix it. I just need a hug. Yeah.

0:18:06
He got up from the chair, and he came over to me, and he put his arms around me, and he just held me. I was like, Are you kidding me? It's this easy. I just have to ask for what I need. And we need and so we need to know what it is we need and we need to ask for what it is that we need. We don't always get it. But if we don't ask, we will never ever get what it is that we need. And so it's so incredibly important to understand ourselves and then to be able to communicate that simply.

0:18:41
And clearly, to help the other person know us because it's the very first part of love is to know somebody. I can't love you if I don't know you. If I don't know where you're hurting, if I don't know where your pain points are. If I don't know that this this you know, when we get with this kind of person, this strong person, this is gonna upset you every time. And we have this person in our family that we see regularly, if I don't know that, I don't know how I can enter into that with you, but if I know it, And if I ask you, so what is it that you need from me? What? Beautiful question, Ruth? What is it that you need from me today? To face this person. Sometimes, all you need is a look from across the room that you're in it with me, and I know that you're in it with me. And then that's love. If you tell me what it is that you need and I can respond to that, if it's within my power to give, and I do and I give it, you know, I'm in this with you. I love you.

0:19:46
And so the first part of communication first of all is to know yourself. Express that clearly and concisely. I hope your people to know, don't make them guests. Don't make them be mind readers. That's cruel. Yeah. That that I think we fall into that trap so easily. Right? Because, you know, if we look around us movies, books, make us believe that the person across from us is a mind reader and is going to suddenly know everything that we want or need and treat us that way. But, you know, that's that's far far from the truth than you you said something that really clicked for me and that was that we need to know what we need to tell others and for me that came through deepening my relationship with God. Mhmm.

0:20:37
And as my faith, grew, and as I became stronger in my faith, emotionally, I I got stronger as well. And I'm not afraid to say, I just need a hug. You know? And and or I just need I need my space. You know, I'm I'm one of those people. When I decompress, I need to be alone. That's how I decompress. But, you know, before I thought it was it wasn't the right thing to say. You know, what what was a person going to think? Or how would they react to me saying that So it's very important for us to have a close relationship with Christ. Mhmm. To understand what we or who we are and then reflect it back.

0:21:31
I love what you're saying, Ruth, and then there's such a secure attached. Movements. Like, if we can securely attach to Christ that he -- Mhmm. -- he has our best heart at interest in whatever's happening in our circumstances, he's still for us. And he loves us. And then have that confidence. And he says, my sheep hear my voice. Yeah. And so sitting with him and letting him speak to us. I love to journal out those thoughts and I don't edit. I just let it go. I I love to ask him questions like, what does this verse mean to what does this mean for me, God today, and just write that out.

0:22:05
And then there can be such a secure attachment there that it's okay to risk with other people that we're not quite sure of. Like, I'm not quite sure because you just hurt me. That that thing that you just said, like, that was painful. Yeah. And I'm not quite sure if I can trust you with my heart here, but he is trustworthy. So therefore, I can push that limit a little bit and step outside of being uncomfortable sharing this with you. But I'm gonna put it out there because I'm secure with him. So it's okay for me to press it a little bit with you.

0:22:43
You know, I think one of the reasons why we don't, we're so afraid of that vulnerability. I'm so afraid of of sharing that need with you in case you step all over it, in case you just turn away from, in case you don't respond in a way that I want you to respond. And so maybe it hasn't gone well in the past. And so we just kinda hide instead of opening up and and giving some of that vulnerability. And of course, you know, in new relationships, it's never wise to give it all away in the beginning. That's that's not wisdom. Got caused us to to move and live with wisdom. Yeah.

0:23:21
But as we get into closer relationships, they require more vulnerability. And they require. And that vulnerability builds on the trust that we can have for each other. And which builds on, okay, I can now I'm gonna depend on you when you say you're gonna call, when you say you're gonna be late, you're you're gonna call and let me know you're gonna be late, I can start to depend on you that what you say is what you do. And there's incredible confidence than insecurity in that relationship building a strong attachment with each other.

0:23:51
But another reason why my women tell me that they they put off these important conversations is because they wanna keep the peace they wanna keep the peace, and they're so kind hearted, they're so agreeable, they don't like conflict, and they've been taught to be the nice Christian girl to be the good church girl. And if I'm if I share my heart with you and I rock the boat, then I'm not pleasing to God. That is painful. That is so painful. And so one of the mindsets that I really work on with my people is that conflict is the doorway to intimacy -- Yeah. -- intimacy, you see. So when we conflict, I get to see your heart because something's we're we're fighting because something's important to you, like you talked about earlier. And when we fight or when we conflict, I get to see into your heart. And you get to see into my heart. And then I discovered In the midst of conflict, I also get to see into my heart. Sometimes I don't really know what's going on, but when we conflict well, get to see further into our own heart about what's really happening? Why am I fighting about this? What's really important to hear about this? To me. That's why I'm willing to go to the mat with you about this topic or about this thing.

0:25:11
I remember a time when my father-in-law was rushed to the hospital And he was in critical condition. And I was at home waiting for word. My husband was at work. My sister-in-law was at the hospital. And I was it the more time that passed, the more messages I got, not from him. I was getting more and more agitated.

0:25:32
By the time he came home at noontime, I was so upset. I was like, why haven't you texted me? Why didn't you call me? Why haven't you let me know what's going on with your dad? Is he dead? Like, I had him in the grave already.

0:25:44
And he said, ugh. Like, I hit him with a hammer and it completely took him off guard. And it was really attacking. And he looked at me and he said, how can I do this differently next time? Like, I could see well, I wasn't ready to let it go yet. I let him have it again. Like, why haven't you text him? Why didn't you let me know? I just need to know what's going on with your dad.

0:26:11
And I said to him, I have never felt like I belonged to his family. I was like, oh, so it just was out of my mouth. I was like, oh, that's what this is about. Yeah. There were other issues. Yeah. This is pain from the past. This is not only this is about your dad. This is not only about him. This is about my heart too. And so we get to see into our own heart too when we have a good conflict.

0:26:35
And actually conflict brings us closer together a bad conflict. When we fight in pro ways, it pulls us further apart. And we were not conflicting well in the beginning. We were avoiding conflict, which then resentment builds. And then by the time you have a conflict, somebody explodes. Maybe both people explode. And it's not a good conflict. It's not healthy and it pulls you further apart. It doesn't build trust.

0:27:01
It's interesting you're saying this because I look at myself and I look at my children with their, you know, with their spouses. And you know, they'll they'll they have those moments where they disagree and they're and I'm like, because my personality and my character has always been to be a peacemaker, to not say something so that, you know, not to irritate someone, not to annoy someone. That's who I've always been. So, you know, as the years have gone, you know, some of that has changed and, you know, I've been able to overcome that But internally, and and sometimes verbally, I will say to them, why do you have to argue about that? Because my first thing is, oh, they're arguing, it's gonna get bad, it's gonna get into something, but they know their love language, they know how to deal with each other and argue with each other. And they'll say, but mom, it's nothing wrong. This is how we we we are with each other. And I see the love that they have. And and I see the value of you know, that disagreement because they've they've dealt with it, and they're on and they're okay now. Whereas I've always been you know, Ruth, don't say it, swallow it. It's not a big deal. You're the one with the issue. It's not the other person.

0:28:27
And as you said, there comes a time when you approach, you know, when you attacked your husband with, I've never been part of the family who comes out at the most in opportune time. How does well, can I just say something about that? It's it's gold. Yeah. It's gold. When and I look for the gold and I teach my people, look for the gold because in that conflict, There's gold there. Look for that gold because that was the gold in moment that helped my husband just to have some insight into my heart. And for me to have some insight into myself.

0:29:07
And we wanna catch the goal. We don't wanna miss the goal. We don't wanna miss the real reason underneath the argument or underneath the disagreement. So how we do that arguing? It really matters how we do that conflict. We'll we'll make the difference between whether it pulls us closer together or whether it pulls us further apart. How how are what are some steps that we can take when we have communication with others around us, to have a closer connection with them, to connect with them at a deeper level.

0:29:45
I love this question. We've formed the three c's of pivotal conversations, created that three c's to be able to navigate through these difficult conversation. Might not be difficult, but they're they mean something to each other or to one or to the other. Their important conversations, they create a shift or a change, and they could be sensitive to one or the other. So we need a a way through these pivotal conversations. In the first see of pivotal conversations is to check emotions. And it's one of the most challenging parts. It's the prep work. We often don't think about prep work, but often these pivotal conversations, they do come up again and again and again. So we can anticipate, okay, we're gonna talk about this again. So I'm gonna prepare for this conversation.

0:30:31
I like to sit down with my journal and go through some questions. What am I feeling? What am I thinking? What is it that is worrying me here right now? And what is it that I really, really want? And those questions, sometimes when I journal through those questions and I I I had a woman recently said to me, I went through those questions and I realized I didn't even need to have the conversation. Mhmm. He did the deal with myself. Yeah. I needed to deal with myself.

0:30:58
And but when we have when we check emotions and then we check motives. What's my motive here? Am I wanting you to suffer a little bit because you just hurt me? Or am I is my motive here? I'm feeling disrespected. And I am needing more respect from you. Is that my motive? Or is my motive to have a deeper connection with you? Or is my motive actually to push your way? I'm gonna protest here because I'm not happy with the way you just behaved.

0:31:25
That checking emotions it sets us up for a better start to the conversation. It helps me to manage my emotions so I can step into that conversation because it's all out on the paper. Some of it's garbage. It doesn't matter. Don't edit it. Just get it out on the paper. So that then you can step into the conversation in a way that then you're able to actually hear and listen to the other person and that's the second c for pivotal conversations is to communicate and clarify. And so I teach my people, share those thoughts and those feelings, Use some vulnerability.

0:32:01
It depends on where you are. If it's with your intimate ones, it's gonna be more vulnerability. If it's at work, it's gonna be more honesty. I like that word better. At work, you don't necessarily want to use vulnerability, but there needs to be a certain amount of honesty. For instance, you're hanging around my desk all day and I don't get my work done. And I have to stay late for work. Am I I have people at home waiting for me and I need to be out on time. You have ten minutes to share with me what you need to say and then you need to go away so I can do my work. That's honesty. Yeah.

0:32:30
And then the third c is to create we solution. So it's not I'm right. You're wrong. It's my way or the highway. It's I wanna hear from you so that then we can create a solution network. For both of us. And in that, you know, we often see the other person as the problem. Rather than the problem is the problem. And when I start to see you as the problem and I am the good guy, you're you become the pick guy. Become the enemy. And then I've just sabotaged that pivotal conversation before it even starts. So instead, I like to carriage my people look for a We solution, something that's gonna work for the both of you.

0:33:13
And there's always you you make your request. Clearly and concisely. This is what I want. I want to have a date once a week or I want you to clean up after yourself. If you have if you eat you clean. That was the rule of my house. Put the dishes in the dishwasher. Wash the dishes put them in. Sick if you eat your cream. Yeah. So very simply, very concisely, and then that other person needs to respond. Yes, I can do that? No, I can't. Or let's negotiate that. We need to give them the options. Yeah. Those are those are great tips for us to to put into play.

0:34:03
What are some of the important lessons that you've learned in your own journey. Mhmm. First of all, that one mindset is conflict is the doorway to NCC has changed the way I communicated. So that mindset shift was massive, not to be afraid of conflict. Secondly, Timing matters. I would meet my husband at the door as he's going out the door to get to work on time and he's the boss he manages thirty other people. He needs to be on time. And it's terrible.

0:34:35
Timing. You can't have a good conversation with poor timing. And so you can have a good conversation or a good topic and good things to say, but poor timing will hurt that conversation and the ability to have a good conversation. And the second is be concise stick to the facts. That'll help you manage your emotions alone. And and last of all, be assertive.

0:35:01
Think about how to be assertive without attacking and without avoiding. And so that assertiveness comes from doing the prep work. I already know what I'm feeling. I already know what I'm thinking. I already know what it is that I want. So I can listen to you because assertiveness it requires listening. I can listen to your heart and your experience. I don't have to agree with it. I can still listen to it. And I can in the meantime, as I'm listening, you feel valued. You feel like you matter. You feel like you have a part and role to play in this relationship and in this conversation. And so in taking that ownership for my thoughts and feelings and what I care about, in the meantime, you feel valued because I care about you. It's interesting about the assertiveness. To be assertive sometimes is considered a negative. Thing. But if we do it in the right way, we we are being assertive for what we what is important to us. It's it's not that negative connotation that we have with that word.

0:36:20
What is one one advice that you have for someone who is struggling right now and feels that they are not being heard. What can they do to start off on their own journey? I encourage everyone. Regardless of what your partner or your people are gonna do, be on a personal growth journey. Yourself so that you continue to get better regardless of what everyone around you chooses to do. And so that as you work through the process, you come out the other end better than you were in the beginning. And I think we all need to be on that personal growth journey so that There's just so much hope in that. That's what we can do.

0:37:09
Like, I don't have any control over what anyone else thinks about me. What anyone else does or what anyone else their opinions or their thoughts or their feelings. I don't have control over that, but I have control over my choices and that has given us and gifted us with the gift of choice. And so those choices that I make to get better myself they're going to impact the other person in some way, and they get to choose them. Whether they walk away or whether they choose to engage and to be in the relationship together with you. And so I would encourage you to get on a personal growth journey, get yourself with somebody who is healthy, for instance, have a friend or whether you need a counselor, a therapist, or a coach, or whether you need a team, I was lacking people in my life, and so I actually joined the John Maxwell team for that very reason, not only to get coaches certification, but I needed health people in my life and new perspectives. And that has been incredibly helpful for me to be with other people who are on a growth journey. And so don't go alone. Have people in your corner and in your life who are also in that perspective of I'm just gonna keep growing. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that great advice.

0:38:31
So we've been talking a lot about pivotal conversations. And if you have a conversation, you know, you've been procrastinating. You've been putting it off, but you know you need to have it. We have a free resource that can help you get ready to prepare. It's called the seven day challenge. Each day, I will send you out a short video with a simple action step. We can learn all take all the knowledge in, but if we don't take If we don't apply, no growth happens. So we need to apply. So love action, simple action step to prepare you for your next pivotal conversation. You can go to for better. That's the number four better, the number four ever dot com forward slash challenge to pick up that.

0:39:14
Seven day challenge. And that really is the best way to stay in touch with me because there you can sign up for our weekly email, which is called the Tuesday Brew with Anne. And there I share weekly communication tips so that you can communicate in a way that aligns with your values. So you're happy tomorrow. With the way that you communicated today, with the values, your faith values that you have, where you wanna love God with all your heart and love the people around you. Thank you and for sharing that. And for if you weren't able to get that information for the free resources, for the seven day challenge, just take a look at the show notes and I'll have all of that information down below for you.

0:39:55
Thank you, Anne. You're welcome. Welcome. It's a great pleasure to meet you Ruth, and thank you for having me on the out of the darkness podcast. Thank you for joining me. To stay connected, follow me on Instagram and Facebook. If you like this podcast, can you help me find new listeners by leaving a rating and review? This small step takes only a moment, but really helps grow the listening audience. So let me thank you in advance. I hope you have a wonderful day and until next time. Let's continue on our journey as followers of Jesus Christ. I am Ruth Hovsepian.