Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hovsepian

No Addict Left Behind: A Journey of Substance Abuse and Recovery with JOEY PAGANO

May 01, 2023 Ruth Hovsepian/Joey Pagano Season 1 Episode 17
Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hovsepian
No Addict Left Behind: A Journey of Substance Abuse and Recovery with JOEY PAGANO
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Bestselling author, motivational speaker, and therapist Joey Pagano shares his own journey with substance abuse. Joey talks about how he found solace in drugs due to his family's rigid doctrine and how it ultimately saved him from wanting to take his own life. Joey also explores how addiction can impact relationships and how it can affect different people regardless of background or faith-based upbringing. The episode also discusses the journey of addiction and how to get clean, the importance of recognizing the moment of clarity when it comes, and the courage to write a book about their experiences. Finally, the power of hope and not giving up on someone is highlighted, as well as the importance of being open-minded and meeting people where they are. 

 

The main takeaway is to love people where they are at.

 

Chapters:

 0:00:00 - The Trauma of Addiction

0:05:36 - The Impact of Addiction on Relationships

0:12:05 - The Journey to Recovery

0:21:23 - Power of Hope

0:33:42 - Love People Where They're At

0:37:51 - Connecting with Jesus

 

Joey’s book No Addict Left Behind will be available at Amazon.com on April 25, 2023.

 

 

Connect with Joey Pagano:

✔Website - www.Noaddictleftbehind.life

✔LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-pagano-874185206/

✔Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gratefulandclean/




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MUSIC
hot music - winning-elevation

0:00:00
Wasn't easy for you to get sober? Well, for me to get clean, it was just it was really hard. And like I said, it's we're talking, you know, years not even knowing you're an addict. Right? It  was and we're talking barely graduated high school. All that trauma. Right? And the seeds of addiction were were planted very young. Right? And the trauma of bullying, cultivated that. Right? If if not even knowing going to the army, getting kicked out of the army with an other than honorable discharge, having a scarlet letter, not knowing you're an addict. Hi. I'm Ruth Hovsepian

0:00:39
Welcome to the out of the darkness podcast where we help you navigate life's trials based on faith and biblical truths. Joey Pagano is a bestselling author, motivational speaker, and educator he is also a therapist with years of experience working as a mental health and drug and alcohol therapist. He and his wife have two sons. Most importantly, he is a person in long term recovery who brings the same principles such as empathy, compassion, and understanding that Recovery teaches into his relationships and professional clinical roles. Welcome, Joey. I am so glad to have you here today to discuss substance abuse and your personal journey. So thank you for taking the time to spend with us today. Yes. This is honored to be here, and I look forward to the show. Thank you. So let's start right out and by asking you to tell us a little bit about your journey where you come from your family to whatever point that you wanna bring us to. Okay. I'm Joey Pagano.

0:01:53
Forty seven year old male from it's a little it's a little place called the Mon Valley. Right? It's a little southwestern corner of Pennsylvania. About twenty nine miles southwest of Pittsburgh. So that's kinda where I hail from. And like I said, is I come from a middle socioeconomic family, a good family, but and I'm the only person that suffers from a substance use disorder. Or addiction in my family. So I that that's where I come from.

0:02:24
You know, I I I really never knew I was an addict that I come from, you know, I always say, hell isn't just a place you could go. It's what I carried around for, like, twenty two years. You know what I mean? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I I I come from this area. And you know, I I I I just wanted to just stop hurting for so many years. So I come from a lot of pain. I come from a lot of hurt. And you know, it wasn't like I said, I I have all these degrees and I have all this stuff going on in my life, but it always wasn't like that. It was it was a place of their election and degradation and just wanting to commit suicide on a daily basis.

0:03:07
And I come from a time where, you know, getting bullied every day in high school, not fitting in, just not wanting to be myself just be anybody but me and having, like, inflicted with the disease of addiction and not even right, not even knowing that I'm gonna have Not even knowing there's recovery, not even knowing there's a way out. It's tough being undiagnosed at it. I agree with you. I totally agree with you. As a child, I was not bullied. I was always the class clown. I beat them to the punchline. I was, you know, very tall. You know, I was five foot eight probably by the time I was, you know, in grade six. And I look like a giant next to the kids in school, and I was overweight. And I had survival in dinks. You know? And the way I survived was to have self deprecating -- Yeah. -- jokes. And that's how I survived those days.

0:04:07
But I agree with you a hundred percent that when you're in a addiction. Mhmm. You don't see further than your own nose. Right? The tip of your own nose, and I agree with you. I could not see that I was an addict of you know, I just had a tough life. You know, and I knew how to deal with it. Yeah.

0:04:28
So so tell us a little bit. Tell me a little bit about how you got into your addiction. And what was your addiction? Okay. Well, it it just drugs kinda preserve me. Right? I had that I had a family very dysfunctional social family, and there was just some there was a lot of yelling and a lot of mental abuse going on. And there was a lot of dogmas. It's a rigid unbending doctrine, like, you know, you have to do this this way. And this other way is not good enough. So I lived, and I and addiction was like a byproduct, of the dogma of our world in so many areas of my family. Right? And which became my life and you know, it still it still, like, stings me part of that. Yeah. So, you know, you're you're and then you go through bullying, so you have all this trauma. And, you know, addiction as and I don't wanna glamorize it, but in a sense, addiction preserve me. And probably kept me from killing myself. It probably -- Yeah. -- that I always killed myself so many times and addiction saved me. You know, as much as it hurt me.

0:05:36
Did did you come from a background of churchgoing or, you know, some faith based upbringing? Yeah. You did. Yeah. It's interesting. It's interesting that those of us that grew up in the church have also become addicts. Isn't that interesting? Yes.

0:05:53
Now listen, I have a relationship with God and I am a Christian, but, like, in my family, you were chastised. If you didn't you, you know, it was just, like, you need to know that because of god, this is this way. Mhmm. So you know, I I I have nothing against any kinda dogmas of religion. Right? I told you, like, I'm a Christian. I -- Right. -- faith and everything.

0:06:17
But it's just like I'm a survivor, like, of Catholicism. You know, and I come from that era where, listen, we're gonna cure you because there's something wrong with you, Joey. So we're gonna send you to Catholic school. To try to face you. And then they've they'll fix you there. They didn't fix me with they didn't fix me. Like I said, I still got right. They're still bullies. There's still all the different things regardless of what school I went to.

0:06:44
So, you know, it just thank goodness. Like, you know, it stopped eventually, and and and I didn't, you know, kill myself and addiction didn't kill me. But you know, the journey through that whole system was pretty toxic also. Yeah. It it's very interesting how it really doesn't matter what your upbringing is or your faith base is. You if you have the personality and I have come to understand that it is a certain type of personality -- Yeah. -- that is an addictive personality. It could be to food. It could be to gambling. It could be to whatever your addiction is to me, it became alcohol and, you know, pornography and sex. That was my go to.

0:07:34
And it's just I'm still, you know, like, talking to so many people. I am always so fascinated about We come from such different walks of life. Yes. But our story is a story of survival. It is. Right. And what happens, you know, when we realize that, yeah, I gotta change.

0:07:59
You know, I had depression. It affected me. You know, I I I also was like, oh, I there's no purpose to me, but I was a chicken. I would never have killed myself. I just dealt with depression. And it's it's a moment of what do I have to do? And when you're in it, you don't see it. How did you realize that, yeah, this isn't working for me. I gotta get out of this cycle of addiction. Oh, my.

0:08:25
Like I said is, I mean, I have mental health just, you know, I could identify with some of that too. Right? I was -- Mhmm. -- my parents try to cure me with a ADHD. We're gonna put you on a million different meds. Which, you know, I I as a clinician today, I know I have ADHD.

0:08:39
But, you know, I had all this mental health and then I have addiction. And then I'm stuck in addiction for almost twenty two years, Ruth, and to answer your question, listen, it took a lot of moments of clarity. It took Listen, I I woke up one morning and I was in the deaths of hell -- Mhmm. -- deaths of addiction where just living by default in the disease of addiction as I control SARS. If you better get up, Joey, you're getting high today, you're not being sick. I'm like, I don't have any money. And it just forced me out that door.

0:09:12
And I went and I, you know, went down the street in a in a small town of three thousand people where everybody knows your name, everybody knows your face, but addiction says, hey, nobody can know you. You're like, okay. And I go down and I I go down and and and the disease I end up robbing a gas station. I didn't have a weapon or anything. And and and I just I just listened to the orders of a disease of addiction, and I just -- Yeah. -- sued her up and I marched, and and I ran down the street after I got high, and I I sat down on the sidewalk, which is across the street from the police station.

0:09:46
And I had a phone, and I had the phone on my hand, and I I called my mom, and I said, listen, like, I can't do this no more. I'm sorry for failing you. I'm killing myself. Tell dad, I'm sorry. I failed him. Tell my son on I'm just sorry. And and my mom's screaming. And this is after, like, so many, hard won experiences, so many overdose, is everything. She's at, like, an attitude, so be it. But she still love me so much and she, you know, just imagine what you do to your mom's heart and you're just she's screaming and then I just hang up the phone and she thinks, I'll never talk to him again.

0:10:24
And I put down the phone roof and I just piled my head and I says I I I just gotta either kill myself or I don't know what's gonna happen. And and I felt like carried across the street. Mhmm. And I walked in the the police station, and I I turned to the chief and the detective, and I said, please arrest me. I feel it today is the day before I die. I can't mute and then I stopped to I stopped getting busy, dying, and I started getting busy living roof. Wow. And that's how That was that was your turning point then. That was it? That was it. It was happening. So much horrible to I mean, I could I could share for days and months about the the, you know, the the hell that I went through. But it was like, it it it was almost the same story day after day. Just a different spin.

0:11:14
How did that affect you with your relationship? You know, obviously, with your parents, I can imagine, you know, I my parents my parents knew there was something going on in my life. You know, I was older when my addiction started. I was in my mid thirties. Mhmm. And it went for about fifteen years. So my parents expect that there was something going on, but they didn't know the depravity of my lifestyle. You know, they how could they I I was a great actress. You know? I I put on a different and the other thing I don't know about you, but I isolated myself -- Yes. -- from my family. I saw them socially, but I didn't have that relationship with anyone because they would find out. Right? About it. But you mentioned you you have a child as well at that point.

0:12:05
How did that affect you? You know, your dad? You know, it you said it, like, we've become great actors. I mean, we're listen. If if we're not great actors, and and wear those masks with with skill, we're not gonna survive addiction. Mhmm. Right? We're just we're not you know, and and like I said, I had to survive decades. You said you survived fifteen years. So there must be masters of the art. You know, at at some of that. I didn't right.

0:12:37
In in addiction, there's no holidays. There's no holidays. You get a letter going to the wedding. No. Well, there's no weddings. Yeah. No movies. There's no time for my son. There's no right eye band in him pretty much. There's no time for for anything.

0:12:53
And I was kind of a talkative person. My personality, like, closed, you know, my family members. It always was. I always talked just like my grandfather who had the same name as me and very lively personality. There's no personality in addiction. You're just a ghost. And there's no forewinds. No emotions. Not bad.

0:13:15
It's it's interesting you're saying that because I literally had no mirrors in the house. Obviously, there was one in the bathroom and the kids may have had one in their bedroom. But I never wanted to see myself. I didn't wanna look at myself because I honestly -- Yep. -- didn't recognize the woman that was looking back at me, there was a deadness. You know, when I look back on it, I just I didn't wanna look at myself. It wasn't me looking back. It was a stranger.

0:13:48
And, yeah, it's it's a different lifestyle. Yes. You know, it's it's unbelievable what we get away with. Yeah. When when you're in the depths of this this life, so what what was the next step after getting clean and sober? Did you was it let me ask let me backtrack one. Yeah. Was it easy for you to get sober? No. For me to get clean, it was just it was really hard.

0:14:16
Like I said, is is we're talking, you know, years not even knowing you're an addict. Right? It it was and we're talking barely graduated high school all that trauma. Right? And the seeds of addiction were were planted very young. Right? And and the trauma of bullying, cultivated that. Right? It it it not even knowing going to the army, getting kicked out of the army with other than honorable discharge, having a scarlet letter, not knowing you're an addict, still getting thrown back to Pennsylvania, using trying to get clean not really knowing what you're doing, not knowing about opiate withdrawal, anything like that, not understanding what that what what was going on, So just years and then years became in decades. Right? I think we clean till thirteen, you know, imprisonment, Yep. Just all kind of stuff. I mean, it it's such a journey to get clean. And and like I said, as I I I I just made it. Right?

0:15:19
I always say that I got cleaned the day before I would die, and that was it. So, you know, if I didn't get Listen. If I didn't get stopped, how it happened and and and and kinda, like, it was almost, like, a divine appointment, like -- Mhmm. -- or that police was able to just carry me through, like, a situation and incarcerate me because otherwise, I would just died. I would just lived in their election forever. You know, I I don't know if I would've stopped because -- Yeah.

0:15:46
-- you know, it was just I tried everything else, you know. I I didn't know what to do. I tried every way to get clean. I mean, I went to facilities. You know, eventually when I knew that there was such thing as recovery, that took a while. Right? I was an in patient -- Mhmm. -- at an agency, this southwestern Pennsylvania human services over and over.

0:16:07
And I would try to get clean when I knew what clean was. Right? And I was like, okay. You can't use. But how do you not use? I couldn't figure that concept out. Because I was stuck in the grips of addiction. And this just this whole cycle, this whole vicious cycle was over and over and over. And it took that moment of clarity. So Yeah. It's something that snaps, right, in your brain. And and -- Yeah. -- and you you know it's you're ready to do it. Yeah.

0:16:35
I agree on that part as well that something takes over. You know, I I knew for a long time that I was walking to my death. And many times, I would look back into the night and say, Where was I? What was I doing? How did I get here? And I'd hear stories of women, you know, being found dead And I'd wonder, you know, Lord, why am I why am I still here? How did what was it that that what what is it about me? That I'm still walking, you know, and I'm still alive. And I I I thank God every day that Yeah. In spite of my stupidity and my my my the chances that I took and I And I didn't know about you, but I pushed and told that line, you know, as much as I could. The riskier, the better, you know, it was just a very crazy time.

0:17:39
What was the next step after sobriety? Because I know what you do now. So share with us. You're welcome. You're getting out of prison and and and listen, I had to make a choice. It's like, what am I gonna do? Am I gonna go back to addiction? Am I gonna just do something different? And and I wanted to keep busy living. Right? I I became a it's a whole long journey which is descriptive in my new book I came out with. It was how I got involved with this nonprofit entity called Club Randy Incorporated. So I became the president of this entity. You know, I was staying busy, staying in service, you know Give them back. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Listen. Listen. Give them back is an understatement. Listen. Yeah.

0:18:22
I was and and I run really hard you know, and and I was just doing everything. Listen, I got this I I got, like, a small little job. I got a car. I just read Dodge DART. I got it, like, decaled with this feet that's rising with these hands on the on the hood. And I had, like, the recovery mobile and I'm, like, a recovery cowboy.

0:18:40
Just around my town roof, just people, like, if you were getting high in this time period, you did not wanna see me. He's like, you know, we wanna stay as far away from that guys. We can't. And that was just go around and talk people, like, just talk when they get clean that I didn't know. Like, like, because addiction works like this to me. It's like, if you're not ready to get clean -- Yes, sir. -- and the right thing to you. If you're ready to get cleaned, then I can't say the wrong thing. But the people that were ready and I spotted, it was like, get my car. You wanna go to treatment? Let's go. And and eventually, like, you know, I I I wrote that until I ran out of money and, you know, because I I wasn't getting paid for anything.

0:19:21
I was I was volunteering. Yeah. And that, you know and these doors of opportunity just continue to open. And and we have to use we If we do not use our experience -- Yeah. -- and if we do not use what we went through for good, what a way I think it's a waste of my life. I need to get out there.

0:19:43
And as embarrassing as you know, my addiction is and talking about it. Right? As a woman, you know, I I've seen the look on people's face when I say, yeah, I was addicted to sex and porn and and it's like, what? You're a woman. Women don't do that. Well, I've that's a whole other subject. But -- Yeah. -- but if I don't take my experience and help others. Then what was it for? What was that for? I need to do something. So I know you've written a book, and your book is due out very soon. Is that correct? Yes. April twenty fifth, Ruth. Yeah.

0:20:21
What what gave you the courage to write that book? Well, I had all these experiences and and and all this Right? All this stuff that's happened to me -- Mhmm. -- and and, you know, that that I survived. And I was, like, listen. Like, I remember being in the shower the one day, and and I closed my eyes, and I kinda, like, have a thought. And this this thought I opened my eyes, and and one of my my colleagues, which is the chief medical director, doctor Scott Acook, right, of SPHS, a large human service agency in southwestern PA, along with he does a million different things, like, you know, very active in and someone that I respect. Mhmm. So I I heard up and dictated to him my idea and messenger. I said, listen. I said, I said, Scott, listen. We can't write a book. I says and I need to, you know, we need to talk about our ideology about just not giving up on someone no matter what. Yeah. And I and and if it's, like, three in the morning or so, like, I just you know, I got it to him and he loved the idea.

0:21:23
And it was like the part of the movie in the Blues Brothers. Like, if you're on a mission from God right now with that school, this is in the middle of right? This is this is, like, so much stuff has happened. This is in the middle of a doctorate degree. Right? Because I got this is my fourth degree. That I've worked on since I get cleaned. My wife's in school. I have my own recovery. I got a family. I got all this, like, recovery events. Just tons of stuff. And and my wife's like, what are you doing? I said, I'm on a mission from God. I'm writing this book -- I tried to be written. And and that's exactly how it happened. I didn't stop till it was done. And, you know, it just came to fruition. Out of something like that, and it might sound, you know, maybe some kinda moment of clarity, a divine moment. I don't know what you wanna call it, but that's how it happened. Yeah. I'm looking forward to to getting my hands on your book.

0:22:19
You you you you touched on something and that is not giving up on the people that we love who are in addiction. Can you talk about that and, you know, just give us a little bit more on that? Yeah. Well, you know, I I I took a a part of my own story. Right? I got clean I think the twenty sixth time. Right? I I I failed twenty five times. I went to treatment. Mhmm. I went to every modality of of recovery there is. And, you know, obviously, I just wasn't ready. And and and, you know, what, lots of some people that gave up on me, but there was a lot of people that didn't give up on me.

0:22:52
And and like I said, I I took that theme is is how I I treat my clients in in the field of social work. It's how I treat my my clients, whether whatever that, you know, I work with them in, whatever field. It's how I treat my friends in recovery. It's how I treat my family members. So I wanted to take that ideology which doctor Cook and I share. It's about listen. It's just about this not given up on people. And and listen, I'm a clinician. But just because I'm a clinician, doesn't mean I know what's best for you a hundred percent of the time. Recoveries individualized roof And and like I said, it's it's up to me to be able to apply principles like self determination and meeting someone where they're at. Not where the clinician, not where the physician, not where the family member is at.

0:23:41
My father used to say, I can't you just get cleaned today. I said, dad. I said, dad. I say, I get cleaned. Any any day I want, dad, as long as it's not that day. And my dad couldn't figure that out. So that's the ideology that's in that book, and it spans with, like, no veteran left behind, no parent, no child, is all these tangible stories that all apply to that same thing. Why are you so passionate about what you're doing right now? Because, you know, people need you know, listen. People need hope. And if this world had no hope in it, then, you know, then people like me would wither the way and would have died. Yeah. And eventually, there's gonna be some people coming through and maybe that that we encounter in our life that, like, we're there to make a difference.

0:24:33
And and I know I could just stay clean Right? If I and I didn't have to do any of this. I didn't have to go to school. I didn't have to, like, apply for a governor's pardon, which I got. Right? I didn't have to do all this extra curricular stuff that battered my life. I really didn't need to do that. Right? I got a job. I didn't need my criminal charges going. But I got a client in my office that says, how did you do that? Right? And I got an adopted twelve year old brother that taught me how to be a dad. Right? And I got my son that I still haven't seen since I've been clean. And I'm gonna give him the book. And, like, he's gonna get some hope in the book, and he's gonna see who his dad was.

0:25:09
And I have a family members. I have a daughter. I have a stepdaughter. It's fourteen years old. And she needs to see that her stepfather, right, is a vision of hope. Because one one day, she's maybe, you know, her friends will use drugs, and she needs to see that. And Like and I go on and on. All that's why, Ruth, because it's simple. They need to hear me. Need to hear us and need to see tangible experiences about hope and action.

0:25:33
Hundred percent agree with you. It's to give people hope -- Yeah. -- for the and to know that there's first of all, I want people to know that there's someone there in their corner -- Yeah. -- that there's someone there that will not not condone what they do, but be there to hold them when they need to be held and to kick them in the butt when they need to be kicked in the butt. And to give them that that that hope, that that there's a a better future for them.

0:26:03
I and also what you were saying about, you know, getting your degrees and doing what you're doing. I think that's part of the healing process. Don't you think so? Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's it's I I think so too, you know, like, at my age and, you know, I'm I'm a a bit older than you. It's like I've started The last five to eight years, it's as though another new chapter is being written in my life. And I make excited about it, you know, and I'm I'm happy about it. And it's I I think giving back is a huge incentive and motivation to keep going on our road of sobriety. You know? Yeah. So what is one of the most important lessons that you've learned on your journey that you can share with us? Just to always try to stay open minded. Right? Mhmm.

0:26:59
And and, like, I don't have to know everything. I don't I just don't. I just have to know someone going in the right direction. And that's why, you know and and be able to just listen to someone, you know. And I think that's why it's, like, no attic left behind because you know, just because on this clinician and everything. I don't know what's right with it for everybody. Yeah. Doctor Cook does it know. Right? He's a well known recovery medicine physician he does everything. He's the busiest. But -- Mhmm. -- we don't know. We know what our our practices teach us and our experiences, but what I think, you know, addiction as well as recovery is individualized. And and I I just think that you know, it it's about just meeting people where they're at. So my answer to answer your question, it's just being more open minded and just learning to just you know, it it's about just just, like, being able to apply, like, trauma informed principles, like, you know, talking to people and and and just live in that stuff. So I don't know. That's what I think. Yeah.

0:28:02
And and what's exciting you right now? I know you have your book coming out. But what else do you have that, you know, what's in the horizon? I'm just so busy. Listen, summer is gonna be real busy. We got this huge huge recovery event we have at August twentieth, and southwestern Pennsylvania. It's called Rock for Recovery, some rock stars, rap artists, behavioral and and and physical health providers, food, you know, a little town called Monesson right by Pittsburgh. We're gonna have this huge event. Hopefully get a lot of people, and I'm pretty excited about that because I love being in service.

0:28:45
I love doing stuff like I'm always in the middle of some something going on, something big. I'm I always am, and I don't know. I've I've always loved that. And and that's I think I do it well. So Yeah. I mean What what what is that that inner strength? Where where do you find the energy and the strength to keep going day by day. Oh, wow. My wife always asked me that. You know? Yeah. And I think I always say it's like a a blessing and a curse. You know? I think I think, like, it's part of my addiction. It's part of my mental illness and everything because she's like, I don't know how you just keep going. And, listen, my mind doesn't shut off. Eventually, you know, where I struggle with, like, shutting it off.

0:29:32
You know, she's able to just, you know, slowly just, you know, calm herself down and everything. It's hard for me to do stuff like that. I'm getting better, but Does she grounds you? Yeah. She does. Yeah. She grounds me, and that's it's real hard for me to do. You know, I I it's just like his passion within.

0:29:51
I mean, part of it's just like, you know, I always feel just and and I don't know. Maybe maybe it's just part of me. It's just so natural. Like, you know, my my chief operating officer, Cheryl and Emma, always tells me she's like, Joey, she says you're like an anomaly. She says how you are? She says, you just you know, a lot of people need taught what you do and the way you feel. She said, but you just do some of this stuff naturally. And I always wanna think of that statement.

0:30:19
So I think it's, like, part of that, like, maybe I just have something in me that just is able to just continue to just I mean, I get cussed at on a daily base from clients sometimes, you know, when the field of drug, but I just I just don't give up on them. And at the same time, it's you know, my addiction and everything has molded me into someone that could, you know, mold my task times a thousand. So I don't know. Yeah. Do you do you think part do you think that part of that drive is you know, do because I let me let me put put it into my perspective of it and how I see it. Now I wasted fifteen years of my life -- Yep. -- and I'm making up for those fifteen years of my life.

0:31:01
Do you think that may be part of your drive? One hundred percent. One hundred percent. I try to do that, and and I try to do too much. You know -- Yeah. -- where and I and I definitely try to make up. Yeah.

0:31:12
You know, because like I said, I did miss a lot of years. Yeah. I I find that too. It's it's I catch myself in that. And I'm I'm an empty nester now. And my kids were young when I was going through my addictions. And I look back and I think, you know, and I wanna, you know, smack myself -- Mhmm. -- those were the most precious years of my children. Yes, I was around with them, you know, because I I was very conscious of the fact that I was responsible for these three precious children, these three precious souls. So I like, I gave my all to them my whole time, but having said that, I may have been there physically. I may have been there mentally, but I know that I wasn't the best version of myself, those years, you know. And so, you know, I feel guilty about it sometimes. And I I know that guilt needs to stay there because I'm here today. But, yeah, I think that's part of our drive. I think that's what pushes us at this point.

0:32:23
You know, when you're in sobriety, you wanna make sure, you know, every moment is accounted for and used wisely. I could agree with you. Yeah. What's what's what is one piece of advice? Now advice for family members that are dealing with someone who is an addict. What is one piece of advice? No.

0:32:49
I I I would have to say is we included a chapter called solutions to every medicine world in our book. Right? Because like I said, I gotta believe that we don't have the cure. Nobody has the cure for addiction. You know, I gotta believe I'm an addict forever. That's just, you know, what I believe -- Yeah. -- so I agree with that. Yeah.

0:33:07
And so, you know, when when I think, like, a piece of advice and if someone's stuck in there, it's just, like, one, you know, we we put those solutions up in the medical, social work and and and family. You know, as a family, a a loved one of of any kind, you know, just don't give up on them. Yeah. And and and you gotta just watch that line or wear, like, enabling. You know? Yeah. And like I said, sometimes, you gotta be able to discern them. Like, my mother just love me from a distance. But you know, in the same, the social work. Right? You you you I wanna apply that self determination, and I wanna let them find their own way, the best of my ability.

0:33:42
And through medically, there's just so many different types of recovery. Right? And then like I said, they're not confined. They might meet a certain level of care. But listen. It's just about just don't give up on the person. You might have to love them from far, far away. You might have to say, listen. You're not staying at my house no more. Right? Yeah. Of experience. But like I said, it's still love is is different ways. Right? There there's so many different ways of love. And you might have to do that, but there's always hope. There's always facilities. They're when they're ready. Right? And and and, you know, whenever they're ready, you know, you can't say the wrong thing to them. Yeah. We have to apply some tough love sometimes to -- Yeah.

0:34:21
-- and what if the person who is listening today is an addict. And and it could be any kind of addiction because I I wanna make sure that people understand that -- Mhmm. -- yes, there are addicts that are addicted to alcohol and drugs and sex and whatever. But there are other types of addictions as well that people don't like to admit it. They're addicted to being busy. They're addicted to making the next buck. They're next they're addicted to social media. It's an addiction. If anything that takes you away, from everyday life. A normal everyday life is an addiction. Yeah. What is some advice that you can give that person? You know, you know, like I said, it's it's what I try to do is if, you know, whatever addiction is, like, I have so many so many addictions. It it depends on what day you catch me on. Mhmm.

0:35:13
You know, I try to do, like, just personal inventories to see where I'm struggling. You know? Like I said, if I'm one social media too much or I'm not eating too much, it's always something. The best thing to do, I think, is just, like, try to take more time for myself. My time. Spend some Joey time. You'd be able to just give myself some self care time, and it doesn't have to be social media. It doesn't have to be all these ever fix it addictions. So it's just take time for yourself. A quiet time. Yeah. Yeah. And I struggle with that so much. Yeah. You know, so much. Like, I'm off this whole week on vacation and I'm you know, it's hard. It's hard. No. You know?

0:35:53
Sometimes we think I think it's human beings working on ourselves. Right? This is coming from me. I think that working on myself means all this other stuff. Now working on myself means giving me time. To not do anything but work on me. Not -- Yeah. -- I need to make an extra buck. I don't need to do all this. So Yeah.

0:36:10
I sent my advice to some people that I've spoken to is shut down the noise in your life. Turn off the music. Turn off the the TV. Turn off social media. Turn off the voices. Because I think that those of us that have addictions -- Mhmm. -- like to fill the quiet. Right? Because otherwise, our thoughts take over. Right? And we realize our our short accomplings. And I have found quiet. And and you so it it helps you. It it does do that.

0:36:46
What is a a final takeaway for us that you would you would share or give to us today? Don't give up on anybody no matter what -- Mhmm. -- whatever situation you're in. Listen. And everybody deserves a chance. And and I and I really believe that whether whether you're an addict, whether you're a loved one, whether you're a clinician, physician, wherever you are. Veteran. Right? All those that's why I use all that stuff.

0:37:12
Like a takeaway, it's just listen, like, everybody deserves a chance -- Yeah. -- when it says, you know, don't let the dogma of our world say that they have to do whatever they think they're doing or they they're trying to do how you think it needs to be done. Take my hands out of the situation and just love people the way they are, whatever they're doing, and meet them where they're at, not where I'm at. Right? Yeah. And, like, that's what makes it. Right? Communication, compromise, commitment. Like, principles like that, not like, you know, uniformity. Not, you know, stuff like that. So love people where they're at. Yeah. That's simple.

0:37:51
Thank you, Joey. Thank you for joining me today. And friends, check out the show notes on connecting with Joey Pagano and to see his upcoming book as well. Thank you so much, Joey. Thank you. I appreciate you, Ruth. Thank you for joining me. To stay connected, follow me on Instagram and Facebook. If you like this podcast, can you help me find new listeners by leaving a rating and review? This small app takes only a moment, but really helps grow the listening audience. So let me thank you in advance. I hope you have a wonderful day and until next time. Let's continue on our journey as followers of Jesus Christ. I am Ruth Hovsepian.

The Trauma of Addiction
The Impact of Addiction on Relationships
The Journey to Recovery
Power of Hope
Love People Where They're At
Connecting With Jesus