Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hovsepian

Self, Sexuality, and Social Issues with PATTI TOWNLEY-COVERT

March 06, 2023 Ruth Hovsepian/Patti Townley-Covert Season 1 Episode 9
Out of the Darkness with Ruth Hovsepian
Self, Sexuality, and Social Issues with PATTI TOWNLEY-COVERT
Show Notes Transcript

Our guest today is Patti Townley-Covert. Her message and greatest desire are to see women, especially young adult women, come out of the darkness of cultural lies about self-image, sexuality, and justice issues and find the freedom of biblical truth through a relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

 

Today, narcissism and self-esteem form the core of a person’s identity. Cheap sex destroys intimacy and faithfulness. Man defines “Justice” in ways that lead to increasing injustice. A biblical worldview can right these wrongs and replace individual brokenness with wholeness.

 

Patti Townly-Covert is an award-winning freelance writer and editor, the author of The Windblown Girl: A Memoir about Self, Sexuality, and Social Issues. Concern for young adults trying to escape life’s pain infused this page-turner with a message relevant for today.   

 

 

Patti’s written numerous magazine articles for national and international publications such as Life Beautiful, HyVee, Thriving Family, and Facts and Trends. As a founding member of the anti-human trafficking organization, Every ONE Free, Patti co-wrote Do ONE Thing: Enlisting in the Battle Against Human Trafficking. Most of her research and writing focus on justice issues. Her bi-weekly blog focuses on self, sexuality, and social issues.  

 

 


Key Takeaways from this episode:

Confidence in being made in God’s image gives people a valuable & stable identity that keeps them standing when life’s fierce winds blow.         

Cultural lies about sex increase chaos and brokenness, whereas God’s boundaries lead to self-worth, genuine intimacy, and trustworthy relationships. 

As defined by culture, social justice leads to increasing injustice, whereas dying to self and living according to a biblical worldview promotes true justice and equality.

 

 

 

Connect with Patti Townley-Covert:

 ✔Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/patti.townleycovert

✔Website: https://ptcovert.com

✔Twitter: https://twitter.com/ptcovert

✔Book: https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B09J1PFT3F

✔Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patti-townley-covert-973b4614/

 

SOCIALS
✔Website - https://www.ruthhovsepian.com/
✔Podcast - https://outofthedarknesswithruthhovsepian.buzzsprout.com/
✔Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/ruthhovsepian/
✔Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/ModernDayRuthRedeemed/
✔LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ruthhovsepian/
✔Speaking - https://www.ruthhovsepian.com/speaking
✔Books - https://www.ruthhovsepian.com/booksruthhovsepian

BUSINESS EMAIL
info@ruthhovsepian.com

MUSIC
hot music - winning-elevation

0:00:02
 Hey, everybody. This is Ruth Hovsepian, and you are listening to the Out of the Darkness podcast This podcast helps women of all ages and stages of life to navigate insecurities, fears, and addictions, and to live per fully, authentically, and amazingly in Christ Jesus. We tackle subjects such as faith, parenting, divorce, loneliness, addictions, and so much more. It's my prayer that these episodes inspire you and encourage you to be a fully devoted follower of Jesus Christ. So if you are new here, let me invite you to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so that you can join us each week. For more information and free resources, visit root hot section dot com. This is Ruth Hovsepian.
 
 0:01:00
 Today, we'll discuss everything there is to know about self, sexuality, and social issues. We're talking with Patti Towneley Colvert, an award winning freelance writer editor and author. We're talking about how narcissism and self theme formed the core of a person's identity, how cheap sex destroys intimacy and faithfulness how man defines justice in ways that lead to increasing injustice and how a biblical worldview can write these wrongs and replace individual brokenness with wholeness. Welcome, Patti. I am so thrilled to have you on out of the darkness today. I have read your book and I am a fan and I cannot wait to dig in. And talk about this and your journey that you have been on. So let's start off with the very simple question. I don't know if it is that simple, but can you share with us about yourself? And the events that have brought you to where you are today. Thank you for having I'm both be here. This is very fun for me. After this journey has been such a wild ride, and so I guess I like to start by saying, I'm a very ordinary person with an extraordinary life. And that extraordinariness has come because of Christ.
 
 0:02:36
 I was in a place where I was full of chaos, and pain. It came from a dysfunctional family. Really didn't know anything about walking with Christ. My background involved a dad who was missing an action in the Vietnam War, and my mother was very self absorbed, and I love both my parents. I don't want any mistake about that, but they were dysfunctional. They came from dysfunctional backgrounds. And my mother took me on a Caribbean cruise. And I was in a very painful marriage. There was emotional abuse that bordered on physical abuse. And we started going on Caribbean cruises every year.
 
 0:03:30
 My husband amazingly said I could go. And I didn't think he would. I didn't really wanna go because I was pregnant. And I knew I needed to be at home, but when he said I could go between him and my mother, I did. And that turned into some pretty incredible experiences, one of which was a love affair with the Norwegian navigator on the third cruise.
 
 0:04:00
 I thought it would be one thing. It turned into something very different. And within a few days, I was absolutely crazy about it. And I had thought it would be a two week experience, but it's really involved a lifetime of under trying to understand where I was myself. That's why I got involved is because I wanted to know more about my own identity. He made me feel very good about myself, I wanted to know about my sexuality because I'd been it had been claimed I was approved and frigid. And I thought if anybody could bring something different out of me, it would be him. But I knew it couldn't last there was no way it was going to be anything besides two weeks when I left the cruise, it would be over. But I didn't allow for a lot of different factors. And one of those my husband and I were having a very difficult time, and the best way I can describe the turmoil is to read a little bit from my book if that's okay. Perfect. Thank you.
 
 0:05:15
 My husband had called me onboard the ship, and I thought, how could he know? And that phone call was so dis dressing that I went out on the deck of the ship by myself. It was late at night, and I Well, I just wanna read a little bit because that way I can say say a lot very quickly. Hopelessness, drummed its feet into my mind as I ended the call embarrassed and shaken to the core. Though I assured that con concerned radio ops that there was no problem I lied. My life was a mess. Wanting to be alone, I went downstairs, pushed open a heavy door, and stepped outside into the oppressive evening air. Finding an isolated spot by the pool, I perched on the edge of a chase lounge in rubbed my throbbing temples, what am I going to do? How can I possibly make my marriage work? And what about Jan? This was the decade of me. I had abandoned all the rules to learn about myself with no responsibilities I thought I could be whoever I wanted for two full weeks.
 
 0:06:24
 Despite knowing that the sensations of lovemaking intimacy and respectful, interactions could only be temporary. I'd taken that risk thinking no one outside this oceanic realm would ever know. But how could I possibly put you on in the past? Though it was clear, I must not fall in love. I was crazy about him. Yet those emotions couldn't be any more than temporary. If he knew how I felt the relationship would be over, it simply must not could not fall in love. And what about the family I longed for? He was not an option. Don's highest priorities involved his career in seeking pleasure Mine was dire met were diametrically opposed, stability with the family and conventional routines. He loved his glacial homeland. I loved Southern California's warmth. He constantly made new friends and went on adventures in exotic locations. He spent vacations in Spain with his best friend All I wanted was security, a home and a husband who would come home at night and be there for me and my son.
 
 0:07:27
 This cruise had put me on board my own personal titanic, an emotional shift destined to sink. My mind and body had connected in ways I never before experienced Yet that problem seemed mine alone. Others had casual sex, why couldn't I? At least this time, my feelings weren't wrecking the relationship. Although I had a hard time not revealing how much I adored John, knowing our relationship couldn't continue make me seem as elusive as he was, craving a life was someone like him was out of quest the question, but how could I live without him?
 
 0:08:02
 The muggy night silence wrapped me in a thick blanket of despair. Knowing what was at stake, I leaned back to look up at the turbulent storm crowds clouds with glimpses of the moon peeking through. A gentle breeze parted them enough to reveal patches of a night sky spangled with the brilliance of diamonds tossed on a black velvet jeweler's cloth. It would take someone big enough to hang those star stars in the sky to fix this mess. Right. I laughed ruefully. Even if such a creator existed, why would he help someone like me?
 
 0:08:36
 I left my little boy to go out on the car to go on a Caribbean cruise, I cheated on my husband. Worst of all, I didn't even feel guilty. And I was crazy about a man who must not fall in love with. This situation was beyond any power I had to control it. For a moment, I sensed an unseen presence. One that understood and cared about the mess I'd made, a mess far too big for me to clean it up. Maybe that was wishful thinking, this was only the tip of an iceberg that lays straight ahead, and no matter what, I had to stay in the truth. My relationship with Jan would soon be over.
 
 0:09:15
 So I was in a place of absolute despair, and that actually got worse. That it didn't end with the cruise. The whole situation escalated, and I knew without any doubt, I had to stay in the truth. And Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life that is the light of men. And so I know it was him that came to me on that cruise ship because everything in me because of my personality, would have wanted to be in denial, but I couldn't afford to go there. I knew that there was too much at stake and it involved other people as well as myself. So Christ came to me on the cruise ship and that the story goes from there.
 
 0:10:06
 And what has brought me here has been those incredible experiences. One of the most incredible was editing books for NASA level scientist who showed me how the creator hung the stars in the sky. I could never have orchestrated that because it didn't like science. When they offered me the job, I said, you have to understand, I failed astronomy in college. I didn't think I thought science was boring. Never did I have any idea that I would just love seeing how all the pieces fit together.
 
 0:10:47
 Can you tell us a little bit about how you found your way to Jesus? And how did Jesus come into you know, how did the lord come into your life? And how did that affect you? And how did that change the circumstances that you were in at that time? Oh, gosh. Jesus came into my life officially through my next door neighbor. A little girl that actually she was a teenager by this time. She baby sat for me. She had met Jan. That's part of the story that I won't go into now. But she saw my despair and she said, you need Jesus.
 
 0:11:38
 And one night alone in my den, I was reading the book of Ephesians and I saw in Ephesians two how I was a sinner. And I might not even feel guilty for those sins, but the truth was I needed a savior, and it was dark. And the enemy had filled my life with darkness. So this your the name of your podcast is just so appropriate because Jesus really did bring me out of the darkness and into the light where I began to understand so much more about my identity and my sexuality and how that impacts justice issues in ways that most people don't ever even connect the dots. And I've still been connecting the dots as I was writing my book, I connected a lot more of them. Yeah. You know, I'm I'm curious to know because we have a little bit of the same journey with sexuality and our identity kind of lying within that. And I wanna know from your experience that once you made a change in your life and you started to follow the Lord, was that, you know, like, a miraculous change? Or were there things that you know, you you struggled with as, you know, as you continued your journey.
 
 0:13:15
 For two years, I struggled really badly. I felt so out of place in church. Everyone else seemed to know the language. I didn't know the language. One of the gals I really looked up to and thought was so pure and perfect. I heard I heard her say the word damn. And I thought, oh my gosh, there's hope for me. You know, something so simple that I saw her being real. And understanding that we are real people with real wounds that take time to heal, started helping. And people's kindness, I it took me several churches. I didn't like the first several I went to, they did not fit me at all. And I went to one where the pastor looked like a surfer. And that was when I was in my twenties. And so that was comforting to me. He played an acoustic guitar, and I really liked that. And the songs really spoke to my heart. So that was kind of the start of the journey.
 
 0:14:28
 But after two years, I was still making bad choices. I'd go out drinking and partying. On Friday and Saturday night, Sunday, I would be in church. And after two years of that, I was in despair. Badly. And I thought I I had an epiphany where I said, okay. No more. That's it. I'm done. I don't like my ways. It's not good for my son. He was two years old at the time, and maybe maybe a little bit older than that. But he was a toddler. And I just decided that no matter what, I was doing things that Christ's way instead of my own when I could figure it out. That doesn't mean I did it perfect, but it meant it meant some suffering. It meant I had to change. And that was one of the greatest decisions I ever made in my life was to not just go to church and pretend to be somebody I wasn't, but to genuinely build a relationship with Jesus Christ and to use that as my stability. And and that even goes into who the Wynn Long Girl is. So the the figurine Please continue with if you want me to continue, I don't wanna keep you from talking. Yep. No. You know that at all. I was I was going sorry.
 
 0:16:03
 I was going to ask you that question of the symbolism of the porcelain girl on your book cover, the Wynn Bloom girl. And if you could share what that it means to you and why you chose that on your book cover. You know, sometimes God does magical things in our lives, things that we would never dream that he could do. And I saw her the first time in the Caribbean. I had no clue as to the symbolism symbolism. I just knew there was a bond, and that's stupid to me that I would bond with a porcelain figurine. I I had no idea, but even my mother who did not relate to spiritual things at all, In fact, at that time, I didn't either. But even she said, that's you. And I thought, well, that's kind of not me at all because I was really unstable and kind of blown blown every which way with the wind, but If you notice, she's standing on a rock. I have a copy of the book here too. I don't know if yeah. You can see she's on a rock. And Christ is known as the rock and there's one scripture after another about him being the rock.
 
 0:17:30
 And it took me years and my book goes into this of how there was it took time, it took years for me to really understand how he kept me standing confident in my beliefs and gave me stability as long as I looked at him and did things his way. And that was part of what taught me not to try and do them my way because when I did, I'd end up with a mess. And I really wanted stability. I wanted peace. And as I've walked with the Lord and learned his word, I found peace as I stay in the light and the truth instead of believing cultural lies. And those cultural lies are so prevalent that studying the bible exposes them and then gives me the truths I need to know what to do when. And that's hard. It's not how did It is. It is hard because society has And still, to this day, tells us certain things, you know, about how we should think of ourselves and how we should treat ourselves and what our sexuality should be like.
 
 0:18:50
 And I love you know, the the underlying message of your your book. It's a memoir, but there's so much more and Can you tell us how you came to to make that decision? Because I know it's a big decision to put your story down and share it with us. And what was that that that push that you had to write this? You know, I was kind of driven to tell the love story between me and Jan. It was intense. It was something incredible in my life. It would have turned to garbage if I hadn't given it to the Lord. I had to give it to the Lord, and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. And again, the book goes into that.
 
 0:19:48
 But I knew I wanted to tell that story and a friend of everyone who heard it said you have to write this. And a friend of mine told me if I'd go to a writer's conference, she'd pay for it because she wanted me to write the story. Well, that was gosh, over thirty years ago, and it took me -- Wow. -- almost all that time. The book just came out in twenty twenty one, and it took all that time for me to figure out how to tell it so that it didn't glorify an affair, but showed the pain that it caused me. And how I wanted the book to glorify God, and it was COVID-nineteen and the withdrawal of America from Afghanistan, and the pain that caused some of the boys that were killed were in my neighborhood. Because of the way it was done, and that absolutely broke our hearts in this where we live. It was it was just heartbreaking. So the pandemic and the Afghanistan and George Floyd's death started tying all the pieces together and after came up with the title of with the three components of self, sexuality, and social issues, I read a book by Nancy Pursi called Love thy Body that tied those three things together even more. So I knew I was on she's a brilliant pathologist and that helped me know I was on the right track and I could do it through my story.
 
 0:21:33
 And and what what is the most important lesson that you learned in this journey. Not just writing the book, but, you know, from from the point where you accept it to go on that cruise with your mom. What is one lesson that you have learned? I think the most important is that being a Christian isn't about the things we do. It's about who we are. And I had to make that choice of who I wanted to be. You know, some there's a very famous author who started his book with It's not about you. Why would say yes? It is about you. Who do you wanna be? Do you wanna be a person who is unfaithful? Who is unstable who is lost and doesn't know which way to go or do you want to be a person who's trustworthy and faithful and so many, many good things who cares more about others than yourself. Who do you wanna be? And when I came to the conclusion, that after that first couple of years that I wanted to be the kind of person people could trust. And depend on and I want stability, that that's what was life changing was when I made that commitment that no matter where Christ led, I'd follow. Amy Grant had a No. It's song about that.
 
 0:23:22
 It's it's so interesting because, you know, we we start out our journey trying to to satisfy certain certain things that are missing in our lives, whether it's intimacy, whether it's love, whether it's parental acceptance, it doesn't matter spouse. It's it's something that we were looking for. And I have come to understand even through my own walk that I was looking for the wrong things. I was looking for things that were external to fill in the void that I had. And like you, I went you know, looking for those things and, you know, I remember that, you know, the the the first time that I had and and my journey is a little bit different.
 
 0:24:23
 When I was married, I was faithful to my husband, in in, you know, in in always. But after my divorce, I tried to fill the void that that was there in my life for and then the void was there was a lot of voids you know, that I thought I would fill with sex and the acceptance of me from someone else. Mhmm. So at that precise moment, the need was filled. But the an instant later, not only did the that void return, but it was even more it was amplified. It was it was the void was even bigger. And I don't know how to explain that to people. That, yes, I was filling it, but it was like quick I don't know if it's like quick sound, but it was like, I was shoveling it in -- Mhmm. -- and yet it was emptying it out faster than I could fill the need.
 
 0:25:29
 And it was only when, as you said, who am I? And who was I in the lord? That I noticed that I was no longer looking for that external you know, the the that external need. I can't even explain it. How to you know, that that external band aid, so to speak, or, you know, that that fake feeling. It was all of a sudden I said, who am I? Who does the Lord want me to be? How do I want to be remembered? You know, because all of these things that I've done in the past are not who I am. I was just I was looking for myself and was only at that moment that I I when I surrendered this this empty vessel to the Lord, and I said, Lord, here I am. I I just don't know how to fill myself up. You know, who am I? What do you want from me? So it's very interesting that Yeah. Only the lord can lead us into that right, you know, to that point in our lives where we are who we are or we become a child of god. It's You know, Ruth, our our experience is the experience of hundreds of thousands of young people today.
 
 0:27:07
 This is one reason this was one of the big motivating factors for my book. Because hundreds of thousands of people are coming from all over the world to go to electronic music festivals, raves, I've done a lot of research because I care about justice issues and I care about human trafficking. Many of the girls are putting themselves at risk. And I've read several secular books about the topic of sexuality, and young people today are losing the capacity for intimacy. Because people have said you can separate your mind and your body, and you cannot do that. And my story prove that to me as much as we intended to separate, and that's true for men too. If you have men listening, men have the same desires and needs that women do in many respects. Yes, we're different. We're very different in many ways.
 
 0:28:04
 But at the same time, I found out from my story that some of the emotions that I had to deal with, some of the thinking I had to do was true for the Norwegian navigator as well. Yeah. And so it's important that we really do understand our identity and our sexuality as it was created to be God didn't make us to be non sexual beings. So he has purposes for sex And he also made it made us. He wired us so that it would be good. But unless you connect the mind and the body, it's not good. It really does damage.
 
 0:28:52
 And that's what I was finding is that and that's what my research has shown with so many young people are trying to have sex without relationship. Or it starts they think it will start a relationship, and what they're really doing is damaging a relationship to the point that it doesn't go anywhere. And that's heartbreaking because it damages their identity. Instead of dignity and respect, and wholeness, which when I realized how whole I was starting to feel, No. I'm not there yet by any means. And do I still sue send you bet I do? There's still areas in my life that I'm working on. And I'll be working on until I die.
 
 0:29:42
 We don't just become automatically perfect. But the thing is we can be real and genuine. And that's where relationship with Christ comes in. It's not about performance. It's not about doing It's about being honest and real with the Lord and then letting him heal us from the things that we thought might be true that aren't. Yeah. You're hundred percent right on that.
 
 0:30:11
 You know, young women and young men are starting out earlier and earlier on this sexual journey, you know, without understanding emotions and their feelings. It's just it's they think as you said, you know, it's just a a fiz they think it's only physical. But it's not. There's so much more that comes into play with that. And that that can be a whole other you know, hour of conversation of how, you know, sexual activity you know, creates difficulty in in future relationships, you know, of how to to build a good solid foundation relationship. You know, we have all this baggage, and I think only only by the grace of god. As a believer, can you move on from your past, you know, and create a good solid relationship with someone. But, yeah, you're right. Society is you know, so so wrong in how, you know, they tell children you know, they should behave and what is okay and what is not okay.
 
 0:31:38
 What can you tell a young woman who is looking for that right person in their life, that person that they think that they will click with on all levels, whether it's physical, emotional, spiritual, what what should they be looking for in that person? I would say before looking for that person because I was married a second time. God used that to teach me many, many lessons, but it was eighteen years of hard. And so I would tell a young person first build a relationship with Christ. And then ask him. When you think that a relationship might go somewhere, ask him what he wants.
 
 0:32:39
 If I hadn't married my second husband, I don't think I would have found some of the healing I found. But looking back, I think, oh my gosh. How did I do that? I was still very unhealthy. I've been a Christian, a committed Christian for a long time. I asked two pastors their advice. Both of them said to marry my excess my second ex husband. We tried for eighteen years to make our marriage work, and we had a second son. And I wouldn't trade my second son for anything and I wouldn't trade the lessons for anything, but I did seek the Lord. So I knew that he was involved.
 
 0:33:23
 I knew that when I wanted to leave my second husband that it wasn't an option that God had put me in that marriage and that I needed to stay in that marriage, that I needed to do everything I could to make up work. I went from being unfaithful to being faithful. I went from being -- Mhmm. -- the instability and the chaos and the confusion to knowing that I had to walk with the Lord to do the best for my family. They were more important than my own needs. And that's where I started really finding transformation.
 
 0:34:01
 So I think more than just looking at someone's character It's important that we look to Jesus to see what he wants for us. That said, now my standards would be first of all kindness, above all else. Mhmm. I would wanna see kindness. I would wanna see faithfulness to Christ because then I would know I was getting a spiritual leader. And that would need to be evidenced by his friends. I would not want a man who was in isolation, who refused to go to church, because it's in fellowship that we grow. And in by fellowship, I mean, by being in relationships with others that are god's people.
 
 0:34:48
 I think it's just really important for us to be teachable and for someone to be able to say, I'm sorry. So you can have a lot of those characteristics without Christ I know because the Norwegian navigator had many of those characteristics. But without Christ, he was I could see at the time that he was as unstable as I was, that if we were together, it would just make the instability worse. And again, that's all in the book. It's just it's quite a story that God used to teach me many of these lessons that so the safe thing is to have relationship with Christ first than with others. And I know that's really really hard for many Christians. And that's why it takes a willingness to do things God's way instead of our way because our way will take this place as we don't wanna go. Amen. That that is so powerful. Thank you for sharing that with us. I think that that is amazing amazing advice for all of us. It doesn't matter if they're young or old. You know, that's amazing advice. Thank you so much.
 
 0:36:09
 What excites you the most right now? Oh gosh. Oh gosh. I'm kind of in a in a mode right now where I've been going okay, god. What's next? Right now, nothing's exciting me. Mhmm.
 
 0:36:23
 But I do have I would like to write a book for parents the wind blown wind blown parent. I have many friends who have had great challenges with their children. I've had some with my own. I can't use my son's stories. They're not mine to tell unless I have permission. And right now, I don't. So I'm toying with that book because so many young people that it breaks my heart the young people that are going the wrong direction and believing the culture. Excuse me. We're in a hyper sexualized culture. They get it from everywhere, from the Super Bowl, to music videos, and the brandy awards, movies, everything in our movies, everything in our culture speaks to lies. Lies that the enemy would use to destroy us. And many lives are destroyed when you look at the suicide rate that foundation of being our identity in Christ takes away the authority of people to determine who we are. And so that excites me talking about it excites me. And I've vlogged about it, but I really enjoy doing podcasts far more. So I guess I'm excited about podcasts. I was excited about being on your through, and I'm excited to talk about that.
 
 0:37:51
 Brings these adventures into my life when I least expected. Yesterday, I was telling them yesterday morning that I was kind of just not very excited about anything. And yesterday, couple hours yet later, a friend client type person who's writing a book and wants some help but doesn't have any money offered to fly me on her frequent flyer miles to the outer banks for a week's vacation on the beach. So I thought, okay, I can get excited about that. I've never been there. And that's what he does. He's given me an extraordinary life But it means going through those hard times when I can't see where I'm going.
 
 0:38:39
 Don't know what I'm doing. And which way he wants me to go instead of just going running with things that people to oh, you should do this or you should do that. And I think No. I need to know God's in it or I can't do it. So I'm kinda waiting on the Lord right now. And that's I think that's that's amazing because as I shared with you earlier, I'm at that stage as well.
 
 0:39:08
 For the first time in my life, I'm I don't I don't see the goal post. I don't I don't know where it is. And I've just turned it all over to the Lord, and I said, Lord, you know my heart is to serve you. And show me what to do and where to go. And and I'm just taking it a step at a time. And every day is a new day and every day is a new adventure. And I think that that's okay as well.
 
 0:39:40
 You know, we've we've become so bombarded and so used to, you know, setting short term, mid term and long term goals that we sometimes forget just to say, Lord, I don't know what to do. You lead me and, you know, just hand it over to him. I think that we need to give ourselves that grace as well. But I also need to your next No. Go ahead. Please Oh, I was just gonna say that's what makes life extraordinary. You know, I like -- Yeah. -- I kinda like boring. I get comfortable, and I just I like putting together puzzles and reading books and just having a simple life.
 
 0:40:22
 But I have been challenged to do things. I never dreamed I'd be doing, and that to me, if you go on my website, you can see some pictures of some of those extraordinary adventures that if it hadn't been for Christ I wouldn't have gone on because I would have thought he'd say no. And he didn't. He said yes and provided for them. And So it really is trusting that God is good. And when we're in those times, I just wanna commend you, Ruth, because it took me a lot of years to learn this, and it's one of the best things a person can do is to wait on the Lord. When we don't see the road ahead, when we don't know where we're going, when we feel kind of lost, god knows exactly where he wants us to go. And if we'll just wait, And I guess, this is a good example.
 
 0:41:15
 I have a convention I go to every year, Anne Margaret, your sister Anne Margaret goes, and I just love that convention. This year, I didn't I couldn't believe it. I decided not to go. And that kind of put me in a little bit of a funk. I think that okay, that used to be kind of a highlight in my year now, what? And I probably wouldn't even consider going to the other banks for a beach vacation if I had gone to the convention. So, you know, waiting on the Lord and being willing to go through the times where he seemed silent when we don't know where we're headed, that opens up possibilities we never dreamed of. So good for you. He's a great guy. You and a great day. Anything that we can think? Yeah. What's the biggest takeaway that you hope my listeners learn from our conversation today? I made a a little note of a takeaway, and I wanted to refer to it because because I think it's so important. I I did wanna leave your listeners with a a takeaway that was really important.
 
 0:42:31
 And when we bring our identity to Christ, instead of letting other people determine it, or determining it by cultural standards. We really do have a rock solid foundation. That we can stand on where when trials come, when suffering comes as it does to everyone, we all lose people we love we all want things that are unachievable. Sometimes, love seems that unattainable. When we're a daughter of the king, we know we're loved beyond measure. And we're loved enough that he sent his son to die for us, and Jesus loves us that much. So no human being determines our value when our value is found in Christ.
 
 0:43:27
 And that gives us a freedom that nothing else can give. You know, in America, we treasure our freedom above almost anything else. But there's a freedom that's even greater. And that's the freedom in Christ. And it gives us dignity and respect when it comes to sex. And it's better I know from experience that it's better to trust in that dignity and respect enough to save sex for marriage. I've been single a long time now and I really liked sex. But I also know that it's not good unless there are certain components there. And like you said, it is it might fulfill a need for a moment, but it's leaves you very empty afterwards if it's not right.
 
 0:44:18
 And so when we find our identity in Christ It also leads to justice for others because we see them as being made in the image of God. So their identity is clarified where it's no longer who somebody says is worthy. It's that each human being from conception to the grave is made in the image of a holy god who loves us and made us on purpose. You know, I look at Andrea Boccelli. He's one of my favorite singers. His mom was advised to abort him. Tim TiVo's mom was advised to abort him and the philanthropy he's he's done for disadvantaged people has been incredible. And so each person is made special and unique for god's purposes, and that means we value them as well as ourselves. So I think that's my greatest advice is to find your identity in the God who made you our creator. Long winded waves.
 
 0:45:28
 Patti, I I wanna thank you. No. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that and joining us today and for sharing your story, your wisdom, your knowledge with my out of the darkness listeners and to my friends that are listening, please check out the show notes below on how to connect with Patty and to read her blog and there's a wealth of information on her website Thank you so much, Patti, for being with us today. My pleasure for sure, Ruth. Thanks for having me. Thank you for joining me to stay connected Follow me on Instagram and Facebook. If you like this podcast, can you help me find new listeners by leaving a rating and review. This small step takes only a moment, but really helps grow the listening audience. So let me thank you in advance. I hope you have a wonderful day and until next time. Let's continue on our journey as followers of Jesus Christ. I am Ruth Hovsepian.